stock tyres a bit rubbish?

[7thgear]

OP

can you confirm with us your procedure for turning off traction control? Can you confirm that you are turning it off entirely?

[350matt]

Aye

I tried it in VSC so just push the VSC button once
and also tried it with everything off, push and hold down the car with Squiggly tyre line button for 3 seconds

VSC improved it a bit and it was best with everything off

and I doubt the springs / suspension are worn out the car only has 8k miles on the clock

ambient temps were about 10 degrees (celcius) and the road was a little damp with no standing water all on standard british tarmac

also the springs and dampers on my other cars were all in good condition ( brand new aftermarket parts on both TVRS at one point)

[Ahren]

I do not like the tires at all. My skill level is not at drift level. If I lost rear grip for more than a second I would most likely spin the car out rather than recover. So I feel like the car is constantly being limited by the tires. I can't wait to change them.

At the limit around long curves I have even run into horrifying understeer.

[Ralph Spoilsport]

I disagree on jiggly. In fact my (spirited) test drive in the BRZ sold me when I got back in my 2011 wrx (stock suspension, tires) and it felt huge, numb and jiggly by comparison. I have crap enough road that I generally set my tire pressure high for rim protection by default. Running 39/39 cold in the BRZ at the moment. That works for my requirements (I like stiff). This may (I have not tested the full range) help moderate the break away characteristics too.

I find the BRZ not quite benign in handling, but certainly not dangerous (dry roads -- I haven't pressed my luck on wet because there just isn't any place forgiving enough to handle a really nasty surprise). I turn the vsc off (trac control off held down 5 seconds) because even in sport mode it is tiresomely in the way and turns a brisk 8/10 corner into a very loose and wobbly affair with much screeching of rubber and lost speed. With VSC off it's really quite the delightful car as so many have noted.

[DarkSunrise]

It sounds like the roads around you are so rough you want a more compliant suspension and/or tires. At least, that's how I read your post.

If you've already tried lowering tire pressures (cheap solution) and that's not enough, you might try a high performance summer tire with a soft sidewall like Continental DW. I doubt it'll be any more compliant than your stock tires (really no performance tire will), but at least they'll offer much higher levels of grip for when the tire is in contact with the road.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by 350matt

Gents

drove the GT86 for the 1st time yesterday over a mixed range of roads and I have to say I'm distinctly underwhelmed by the ride and grip levels on the standard michelin Primacy tyres

the whole car felt extremly choppy and jiggly with very little flow over country lane broken surfaces

now bear in mind in the UK our road surfaces can be 'challenging' to say the least not much smooth tarmac here on our small country lanes

The traction control felt like it was constantly intervening and giving a halting / misfiring feel to the whole affair

turning the TC off helped a bit and reducing the tyre pressures from 36 to 32 all round helped quite a lot

but I normally drive an old Mk3 MR2 and that is far far easier to pilot over this route

now the GT is the faster car but I was working a lot harder to extract the speed


My feelings are that a softer sidewall tyre like a Toyo would go a long way to giving some compliance and better traction and generally improving the car

I had very similiar issues on my old TVR Griffith when it was on Bridgestones and switching the Toyo proxes then made a big improvement

your thoughts?

I'd say yes, a softer sidewall tire would help. Also you're comparing to an MR2 and TVR - did you have stock suspension and tires on both? If so, I believe both have smaller rims (15"?) and higher profile tires (50/55?) correct? Also probably softer sprung - the GT86 stock suspension is fairly stiff. Lastly the car provides a lot of feedback - which over rough roads can feel unsettling at first.

[350matt]

thanks for the feedback chaps

I'll definitly get some softer sidewall tyres on it at a later date I think and looks like VSC should be on by default ;-)

[CaptainSlow]

I've had very little issue with the stock tires. I haven't raced with them, but I have driven on some pretty twisty roads at pretty high speeds and they were very adequate. Can more performance be gained from better tires? Of course. But I don't understand why so many people say the stock tires are terrible.

[Ralph Spoilsport]

wait, what?

imo, the "Prius Tires" are pretty soft in the sidewall department.

I'm guessing one reason that they "surprise" people in unpleasant ways is the shoulder rolling under, especially if they are a bit soft to start with.

Be sure to check this: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47107

Oh, and I think you meant VSC *off* "by default". You want TRAC OFF and VSC OFF annunciators visible.

[autobrz]

The most important piece of information is the road was damp.
As some have experienced as well as I do, the stock michelins do not do well in wet.
In the dry though, the stock tires are very adequate for some fast speeds through the twisties.

The stock damping is definitely stiffer than the mr2 stock. I think it was tuned to control the energy at high speeds on a race track. It's also built to a budget so it doesn't have the quality of a real nice damper that can soak up high piston speed compression while providing a lot of low speed compression damping.

[Cato]

The ride is so harsh by 70 mph on my new BRZ that I had the tires rebalanced dynamically with no perceptible improvement. Also tried 32 psi without much effect.

The laughable thing is that the car actually rides pretty smoothly on my BFG G-Force Rivals at 40 psi when driving two hours to and from an autocross (I change them in my garage).

I can't afford another set of tires right now, so I'll just have to hope not too many fillings get knocked out before the tires wear out.