Ready for Heel Toe Action

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by GTB/ZR-1

You'll eventually br able to do it in any car (except maybe a 1st Gen Viper lol) w/o thinking twice...

I wouldn't go that far. It's mostly the same motion (though differences in pedal spacing can change things - on my outback and the BRZ/FRSs that I test drove, the pedals are really close together, so I end up doing a sort of thing with the left side of my foot on the brake and the right side on the gas, while in my Cayman, they're farther apart and better placed for a true heel on gas, toe on brake motion), but it still takes some practice to do it right in each new car. Differences in throttle response, gear ratios, and how quickly the engine revs with no load make it difficult to smoothly downshift until you get used to each different car.

For an extreme example, I got a chance to drive a Ferrari 360 recently (what a glorious car...) - its engine revved so quickly and freely that it was very difficult to downshift smoothly, and the clutch pedal had a pretty short (and stiff) throw that didn't help matters. My Outback on the other hand revs pretty slowly, but it has a different problem: I'm so used to the noise made by my Cayman, that I have to pay attention to hear the (much quieter) engine sound on the Outback to properly rev match the downshifts.

It's definitely a lot easier to adapt than it is to learn the first time, but there's still a significant amount of adjustment you have to make for each car to get it just right.

[bkblitzed]

Originally Posted by GTB/ZR-1

Your best bet is to ask someone who's very proficient @ it & have them break it all down for you when you booth have an hour or 2 to spare. As stated, it's going to take A LOT of practice to become second nature.

You'll eventually br able to do it in any car (except maybe a 1st Gen Viper lol) w/o thinking twice...

add gen 2 to that list lol.

[GTB/ZR-1]

Originally Posted by bkblitzed

add gen 2 to that list lol.

Nah... Infinitely better than Gen 1.

When I drove one for the 1st time (it was a Skip Barber car my buddy who worked for them, let me take a spin), I immediately was a able to blip down @ the first corner. My buddy was riding shotgun & remember him giving me props, since it was the first time I'd even hit the brake. They're actually very similar to a C5/C5 pedal setup (which I've had abt 10 of those cars lol).

[GTB/ZR-1]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I wouldn't go that far...
It's definitely a lot easier to adapt than it is to learn the first time, but there's still a significant amount of adjustment you have to make for each car to get it just right.

I guess I have seat time in so many cars, it's easy for me to immediately adapt. This is especially true when I drive all these wacky cars @ the Grassroots $20xx Challenges... lol

Adding another foot-contortion car: F-bodies lol

[whaap]

Originally Posted by FnFast

Especially downshifting around a corner... do that wrong and you lock up the rear wheel and that's never good. Haha.

Take it from a former MSF instructor, that should be avoided. You should be set up and in the proper gear before you enter the corner so you can gradually accelerate out of it. You want to do as little as possible to upset the balance while you're in the corner. Not that special circumstances won't require it on unexpected occasions but you should be aware of that and avoid doing that when ever possible.

[Anthony]

Yep, no shame in standing her up going off the track.

Unless your "track" happens to be a street, and going off of it puts you right into a solid object. In which case, choose your own adventure. I like my odds a lot better on the track though.

[Rayme]

I never could get my heel / toe technique up to a usable point on the street. So I gave up.

The only places I find it would be useful is going downhill with an upcoming corner.

[frslee]

Originally Posted by FnFast

So the BRZ is my first manual car, but I was not a newb with manuals. I feel I am ready to really start improving on my manual skills. Is it possible to heel toe with our peddles or what?

This is my first manual car as well. After getting comfortable with regular shifting, downshifting and rev-matching, I tried the heel & toe. It didn't work out good at first. Some people say you can do it, but I couldn't reach the gas pedal unless I was braking really hard. That, you can do on track, not much on street. So I just bought the cusco gas pedal and it is a lot closer to brake pedal's level. You can easily feel the gas pedal under regular braking.

[Boil]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

If you haven't yet, try rev match downshifting a few times too. Doing it gets you used to blipping the accelerator when downshifting. After that, all you're doing is adding brake input

LOL…

I learned to heel/toe & rev match on the downshifts back in the mid-80's…

I was fresh out of high school, and the car was my roommates…

She had one stipulation when I first started driving it…

"If you stall it, you will never drive it again…"

I started out in 2nd gear the first time in it, just to be sure to not stall out…!

The car…? A wicked 4 banger/4 speed Rallye Edition Ford PINTO…!!!

(It said RALLYE across the sides, had a blacked out grill & rear deck spoiler…)

ME & my friends dogged the SHITTE out of that car in the summer of 1984, had our own little 'road course' thru the streets of a quiet subdivision…!

I also learned the art of moving forward from a dead stop in traffic while going uphill, the quick way; it was bumper to bumper with a Mercedes RIGHT on my arse…! SO afraid I was gonna roll back into it…!

Good times, good times…

[TylerLieberman]

[whaap]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

If you haven't yet, try rev match downshifting a few times too. Doing it gets you used to blipping the accelerator when downshifting. After that, all you're doing is adding brake input

If you would like to try something that will make things even smoother; instead of blipping the throttle when you down shift, work on coordinating your left and right foot so that just as your clutch is engaging the new lower gear, you right foot has brought up the rpm's to where they will be in the new gear you've selected. Instead of blipping through a range of rpm's, with practice you are truly rev matching and not just throwing a blip at it.

[Chad]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

If you haven't yet, try rev match downshifting a few times too. Doing it gets you used to blipping the accelerator when downshifting. After that, all you're doing is adding brake input

I would say this is awesome advice. I have been driving stick for about 6 years now and in the past couple years I've been practicing rev matching and now do it all the time, however I have not had the chance to do a whole lot of heel-toe mainly cause I haven't hit the track, but that's my next step.

I can already notice that being really comfortable with rev-matching will be extremely helpful with heel-toe.

Double thumbs up for this advice lol.

[FnFast]

Originally Posted by whaap

If you would like to try something that will make things even smoother; instead of blipping the throttle when you down shift, work on coordinating your left and right foot so that just as your clutch is engaging the new lower gear, you right foot has brought up the rpm's to where they will be in the new gear you've selected. Instead of blipping through a range of rpm's, with practice you are truly rev matching and not just throwing a blip at it.

I sort of lost you man... Can you explain this differently?

[whaap]

Originally Posted by FnFast

I sort of lost you man... Can you explain this differently?

I'm not sure I can but I'll try. If you're in any gear and want to down shift, go ahead and push the clutch in and with your right hand shift down a gear. Now at the same time you start to release the clutch use your right foot to bring the rpm's up to where they will want to be when the transmission engages in the new gear. If you didn't use the throttle and just released the clutch your car would lurch and let's say the rpm's would jump up from 2000 rpms to 3500 rpms. If you had the tach reading 3500 rpms the split second your clutch engaged it would not cause any unnecessary wear on your clutch, there would be no lurching and the down shift would be as smooth as silk.

I think that's the best I can break it down for you.