Wider wheels: need an alignment?

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by qoncept

As to those implying there is ANY different to your alignment after changing wheels or tires.. I don't even know what to say. There isn't. Period. To suggest it's even possible is crazy. Do you readjust your belt when you put on a different pair of shoes?

I would strongly suggest you check the internet on what is recommended after you change tires... there are plenty of answers. And if you feel you dont need to, its entirely up to you. The issue is that tires wear in conjuntion with the wear on your suspension components. When you are introducing a new tire and new wheel into the equation, the very factor that has resulted in the current set up is changed... Its like wearing shoes. how does an older shoe feel better than old shoes? Because the old shoe has been worn to reflect the walking patterns of the individual... the new shoe has not. But in the case of cars, they dont adjust themselves as with humans... perhaps that is a better comparison...

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

You are free to do what ever you want on the vehicle. We are not affiliated with any alignment shop to make extra money off anyone. It is just standard protocol as a safety precaution promoted by tire manufacturers and installation shops to provide optimal wear and performance.

As to others thinking its ok not to align the vehicle after changing even just tires, thats their choice. In our experience, we have fitted on slightly wider tires and slightly bigger tires on stock suspension set up without alignment to compensate after. The results were uneven wear on the tires.

Tire manufacturers suggest an alignment when tires are replaced after like 60-100k km's, not if you just had an alignment a couple weeks earlier after replacing the suspension.

Unless you're coming up with different alignment specs based on wheel width/offset and tire width there is simply no need for such frequent alignments.

Yes alignments will drift, and after a 3-4 years it's probably smart to have it re-aligned, but the reason is age and km's driven not the fact that new tires/wheels will fit different.

By your logic I should be getting two alignments per year, every time I swap between summer and winter wheels. When I get more competitive with track events I'll definitely get it aligned at the start of every race season, but for the average street driven car that is simply overkill.

[raul]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

I would strongly suggest you check the internet on what is recommended after you change tires...

Great source you have there. Why not call a few alignment shops and ask around?

[leon78]

Your not gunna fit in the front with 17x9+44 on stock spring size. Even +42 with a 5mm spacer was mad close.

[WHITE]

I switched from the stock wheels and tires to 18x9.5 +38 all around with 255/40 front and 265/40 rear.....my alignments still spot on, and handles like a god dang f1 car(exageration).

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

I would strongly suggest you check the internet on what is recommended after you change tires... there are plenty of answers. And if you feel you dont need to, its entirely up to you.

I'm not going to bother because I know what a camber bolt and tie rod end look like, I know how suspension parts move, and I know changing wheels and tires isn't going to affect them in any way.

I'm going to put my car on a rack, see that adjustable toe is within factory specs, along with caster and camber. Then I'm going to put new wheels and tires on and put it on the rack again. All the numbers are identical! EVERY TIME!

If anyone without something to sell suggests an alignment when you get new tires, it's because they're talking to my mom who gets new tires every 50k miles and is due for an alignment anyway.

[dori.]

Originally Posted by leon78

Your not gunna fit in the front with 17x9+44 on stock spring size. Even +42 with a 5mm spacer was mad close.

yeah but he's running 215s on it.

unless that's what you had, I dunno.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

we recommend any drop or even wheel and tire change to have alignment done. Remember that you are altering the suspension geometry with any of those changes.

What geometry is being changed by a wheel change, other than possibly track width and scrub?

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

the wheel and tire are extensions of the suspension parts and the actual contact patch connecting car to the road. any changes in offset and tire size will change the handling... If looking at wheels/tires/suspension together, the geometry is changed.. thus alignments are always recommended... Alignments involve toe, camber, and caster. So, when lowering the suspension or even just tire changes, it is better in the long run to have the car alignment done again.

How does changing wheels and tires changes your toe, camber, and caster?

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Tire manufacturers suggest an alignment when tires are replaced after like 60-100k km's, not if you just had an alignment a couple weeks earlier after replacing the suspension.

Originally Posted by qoncept

If anyone without something to sell suggests an alignment when you get new tires, it's because they're talking to my mom who gets new tires every 50k miles and is due for an alignment anyway.

These are the only reason to consider an alignment when getting new tires.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by wparsons

These are the only reason to consider an alignment when getting new tires.

Exactly. Like replacing your water pump when you replace your timing belt. It's probably working fine, but after 100k, while you're in there for a timing belt it just makes sense.

[leon78]

Originally Posted by dori.

yeah but he's running 215s on it.

unless that's what you had, I dunno.

NCE about his herraflush tire size choice...Im taking offset and wheel clearance in reguards to stock front spring size.

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by raul

Great source you have there. Why not call a few alignment shops and ask around?

our source is not the internet... we have worked with alignment shops over the past 30 years that do specific work on high performance street and race cars... thats their recommendation...

[raul]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

our source is not the internet... we have worked with alignment shops over the past 30 years that do specific work on high performance street and race cars... thats their recommendation...

It may not be your source, but you did encourage the previous poster to look in the Internet for information regarding your recommendations.

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Tire manufacturers suggest an alignment when tires are replaced after like 60-100k km's, not if you just had an alignment a couple weeks earlier after replacing the suspension.

Unless you're coming up with different alignment specs based on wheel width/offset and tire width there is simply no need for such frequent alignments.

Yes alignments will drift, and after a 3-4 years it's probably smart to have it re-aligned, but the reason is age and km's driven not the fact that new tires/wheels will fit different.

By your logic I should be getting two alignments per year, every time I swap between summer and winter wheels. When I get more competitive with track events I'll definitely get it aligned at the start of every race season, but for the average street driven car that is simply overkill.

Alignments can go out of whack fairly easily... Just because you did one 3 months ago does not mean its still sound... all it takes is a pothole or hitting a curb to do so...

As to recommendations, one of the easier source to help most people find out other than asking alignment shops can find some useful information through tire rack... here is their take( no affliation) Hope the information is helpful to others:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=4

While it's often referred to simply as an "alignment" or "wheel alignment," it's really complex suspension angles that are being measured and a variety of suspension components that are being adjusted. This makes an alignment an important suspension-tuning tool that greatly influences the operation of the vehicle's tires.

Out-of-alignment conditions occur when the suspension and steering systems are not operating at their desired angles. Out-of-alignment conditions are most often caused by spring sag or suspension wear (ball joints, bushings, etc.) on an older vehicle. They can also be the result of an impact with a pothole or curb, or a change in vehicle ride height (lowered or raised) on any vehicle regardless of age.

Incorrect alignment settings will usually result in more rapid tire wear. Therefore, alignment should be checked whenever new tires or suspension components are installed, and any time unusual tire wear patterns appear. Alignment should also be checked after the vehicle has encountered a major road hazard or curb.

Alignment Ranges

The vehicle manufacturers' alignment specifications usually identify a "preferred" angle for camber, caster and toe (with preferred thrust angle always being zero). The manufacturers also provide the acceptable "minimum" and "maximum" angles for each specification. The minimum and maximum camber and caster specifications typically result in a range that remains within plus or minus 1-degree of the preferred angle.

If for whatever reason your vehicle can't reach within the acceptable range, replacing bent parts or an aftermarket alignment kit will be required. Fortunately there is a kit for almost every popular vehicle due to the needs of body and frame shops doing crash repairs and driving enthusiasts tuning the suspensions on their cars.

Recommendations

An accurate wheel alignment is critical to balance the treadwear and performance a vehicle's tires deliver. Regular wheel alignments will usually save you as much in tire wear as they cost, and should be considered routine, preventative maintenance. Since there are "acceptable" ranges provided in the manufacturer's recommendations, the technician should be encouraged to align the vehicle to the preferred settings and not just within the range.

If you are a reserved driver, aligning your vehicle to the vehicle manufacturer's preferred settings is appropriate.

If you are an assertive driver who enjoys driving hard through the corners and expressway ramps, a performance alignment is appropriate for your car. A performance alignment consists of using the vehicle manufacturer's range of alignment specifications to maximize the tires' performance. A performance alignment calls for the manufacturer's maximum negative camber, maximum positive caster, and preferred toe settings. While remaining within the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations, these alignment settings will maximize tire performance.

If you are a competition driver who frequently runs autocross, track or road race events, you'll typically want the maximum negative camber, maximum positive caster and most aggressive toe settings available from the car and permitted by the competition rules. If the rules permit, aftermarket camber plates and caster adjustments are good investments.

Many of today's alignment machines are equipped with printouts that compare the "before" and "after" alignment angles with the manufacturers' specifications. Requesting a post alignment printout can help you confirm the thoroughness of the alignment technician and preserve a record of your vehicle's intended settings in the case of an encounter with a suspension damaging road hazard.