Innovate Stg1 Supercharger with W/M injection

[pheoxs]

Originally Posted by Adeets

I guess I was expecting more from a unicorn. The torque band doesn't look that impressive, and I was expecting it to come out of the gate, not 3,500-4,000

Pretty much sums up what I'm thinking.

The big selling point of the twin screw was all the low end torque. At 3k the Vortech has the same amount of low end power and more top end. Most of the turbos spool quicker and make more power than the innovate kit too.

Maybe the intercooled version will show something else but honestly after all that waiting ...

Thanks for mentioning the S/C bypass valve. Can you post some more info about your W/M setup? I really want to run something similar with the Vortech Kit

[King Tut]

You guys both summed up my feelings.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by pheoxs

Pretty much sums up what I'm thinking.

The big selling point of the twin screw was all the low end torque. At 3k the Vortech has the same amount of low end power and more top end. Most of the turbos spool quicker and make more power than the innovate kit too.

Maybe the intercooled version will show something else but honestly after all that waiting ...

Thanks for mentioning the S/C bypass valve. Can you post some more info about your W/M setup? I really want to run something similar with the Vortech Kit

The big benefit of a twin-screw is the transisional response. Lifting the throttle then getting back on, the twin will respond like a NA car. A turbo will have to re-charge the intake pathway, deadening the response.

It comes down to application. If you're doing something that lets you stay on the throttle for long periods, a turbo can be very effective. But if you're doing something that requires a lot of part-throttle pedal work, a SC can be a better tool.

And low-end isn't the point, it's the mid-range. Centri SCs and Turbos have a climbing torque curve, whereas this one is very fat in the middle. This kit essentially bumps the power and doubles the usable rev range from stock.

[King Tut]

With the lower torque and power numbers of the Innovate setup, I am not sure you need to worry about partial throttle.

[pheoxs]

Originally Posted by King Tut

With the lower torque and power numbers of the Innovate setup, I am not sure you need to worry about partial throttle.

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

The big benefit of a twin-screw is the transisional response. Lifting the throttle then getting back on, the twin will respond like a NA car. A turbo will have to re-charge the intake pathway, deadening the response.

It comes down to application. If you're doing something that lets you stay on the throttle for long periods, a turbo can be very effective. But if you're doing something that requires a lot of part-throttle pedal work, a SC can be a better tool.

And low-end isn't the point, it's the mid-range. Centri SCs and Turbos have a climbing torque curve, whereas this one is very fat in the middle. This kit essentially bumps the power and doubles the usable rev range from stock.

I think the idea that was perceived by this kit was it was going to make gobs of torque from the get go, but at 4k the vortech starts making flat linear torque that climbs way above this kit, my hope for this kit was to start out kicking vortechs ass in torque and keep it till 6k ish, what it does instead is has a lil flare right before 3.5, then the vortech seems to match it, then surpasses it, by a pretty significant margin.

I just think that this nonintercooled kit has been hyped way to much, and it's not really even a contender for the other options out there. If your worried about carb, go vortech, even the ugly flatliner tunes seem better then this. If your not worried by carb, go turbo, if you don't want lag go vortech. I'm not seeing where this kit has a market, what are the pros of it compared to the rest out there?

Maybe a market for people who think installing intercoolers is to hard? Well, they probably won't be buying a kit at all.

[Adeets]

I honestly think @robispec would have posted better numbers with a vortech.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

The big benefit of a twin-screw is the transisional response.

Not trying to nit-pick, but it's transient response.

[Draco-REX]

*shrug* To each their own. This will deliver the power level I want with the throttle response I want when I'm done.

Like I said, it depends on the application. You want big numbers and don't care about the throttle response. I don't care about numbers and want a more responsive car.

Frankly, if I just wanted big power enough to compromise how the car drives, I wouldn't have sold my STI.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Not trying to nit-pick, but it's transient response.

Not so sure about that.

tran·si·tion (trn-zshn, -ssh-)
n.
1. Passage from one form, state, style, or place to another.

tran·si·ent (trnz-nt, -zhnt, -shnt)
adj.
1. Passing with time; transitory

But this is OT

[Calum]

~40 ftlbs less right at 2500 rpm right where I spend a good chunk of my daily commute. That's not just bad, that's deplorable. My old neon made better torque down there. This car would feel like a pig with that little torque. Am I missing something, is everyone calling it a unicorn because it doesn't actually exist?

I'm very disappointed by these graphs and I was really excited by this kit. Shit.

[jamesm]

Anyone who expected this to make more power was setting themselves up for disappointment. Twin screws (especially non intercooled) don't make big power. Sure I think we all expected more than 210whp, but no one is going to buy this kit if they're after big power anyway.

Honestly they could've posted that dyno and said it was from bolt ons and a tune and it wouldn't have looked too out of place. It is shockingly low even for the type of system it is. Hopefully intercooled will be better, but if guys are only making 250-260whp with WMI and e85 I wouldn't hold out hoping for too much.

I'm just glad I went turbo. Gtx2867r makes boost at <3k rpms and transient is instant. Good enough response for me, and it comes with an extra 200 potential horsepower. That's a trade ill make any day of the week.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Calum

~40 ftlbs less right at 2500 rpm right where I spend a good chunk of my daily commute. That's not just bad, that's deplorable. My old neon made better torque down there. This car would feel like a pig with that little torque. Am I missing something, is everyone calling it a unicorn because it doesn't actually exist?

I'm very disappointed by these graphs and I was really excited by this kit. Shit.

You're at WOT at 2500rpm daily?

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Anyone who expected this to make more power was setting themselves up for disappointment. Twin screws (especially non intercooled) don't make big power. Sure I think we all expected more than 210whp, but no one is going to buy this kit if they're after big power anyway.

Honestly they could've posted that dyno and said it was from bolt ons and a tune and it wouldn't have looked too out of place. It is shockingly low even for the type of system it is. Hopefully intercooled will be better, but if guys are only making 250-260whp with WMI and e85 I wouldn't hold out hoping for too much.

I'm just glad I went turbo. Gtx2867r makes boost at <3k rpms and transient is instant. Good enough response for me, and it comes with an extra 200 potential horsepower. That's a trade ill make any day of the week.

If you re-read the OP, you'll see that the 210rwhp you're quoting is on a low-reading dyno. Closer inspection puts the stock run at about 140rwhp. Assuming a 15% driveline loss, a stock BRZ should be around 160. Adjusting for the discrepancy, that puts his final numbers at over 240rwhp or roughly 282bhp.