what meth kit are you using

[AZFA20]

No offense taken

I think a key difference in conversation here is that this equation includes methanol. I completely agree that water injection alone should not be a detonation suppressant. I also understand your point in regard to building an engine to avoid the need for something like this however, I think you know as well as I do that it works when combined with methanol . Band-aid perhaps, depending how you are using it but if its a part of the equation when building I don't consider it a band-aid but rather an alternative to not so great fuel availability in some regions (this more than anything). In a sense its a band-aid for lack of better fuel for reasonable daily driving. The subject of water/meth is certainly full of debate but I can say for certainty with my personal use of it, that it has served me well over the years. It has allowed me to do a number of things that many have thought to be against the grain of thinking if you will.

[ft_sjo]

That's fair enough. Fortunately I live in a region of consistent fuel to the point where before adaptive spark was common, we used to disable knock control in our calibrations as it caused more bad than good!

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Heavily retarded engines due to high ACT's was not good!

Excuse me! Differently-abled engines, thank you very much!

[AZFA20]

I wish we had your fuel grades/consistency available here in the pacific southwest US too but I definitely do not wish to have your cost for it there in the UK. The old pay to play holds true everywhere I suppose haha.

[EAGLE5]

OK, so average UK price is $2.23/liter for premium. 3.78541 liters per US gallon. That makes $8.44/US gallon in the UK, which in US terms is 92-94 octane I believe. For reference, here's a photo from a local gas station. That's 100 octane US for $7.80. I guess we don't have much to complain about here.

I'll still go E85, though, when I'm ready to mod.

[B L U E S L A T E]

That 98 octane.... it might be a trap.

[King Tut]

I installed an Aquamist system on a heavily modified WRX last weekend. It definitely has a failsafe system just like my AEM Failsafe gauge in that it has a wire that can go from 12V to ground or the other way around when a failsafe condition is met. I am not sure if there is a way to run that into our ECU. On the WRX it gets wired up to the boost control valve and when the failsafe condition is met the boost is dropped down to wastegate value. You might be able to wire it into an electronic boost controller to do the same thing or wire it to a blinding shift/idiot light to tell you to let off the throttle. The Aquamist kit was a pretty nice kit with a wiring diagram for each year of the WRX and STI. It comes with a gauge that shows when your level is low and when the system is active or not and how much spray you are using.

[Frs300]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I installed an Aquamist system on a heavily modified WRX last weekend. It definitely has a failsafe system just like my AEM Failsafe gauge in that it has a wire that can go from 12V to ground or the other way around when a failsafe condition is met. I am not sure if there is a way to run that into our ECU. On the WRX it gets wired up to the boost control valve and when the failsafe condition is met the boost is dropped down to wastegate value. You might be able to wire it into an electronic boost controller to do the same thing or wire it to a blinding shift/idiot light to tell you to let off the throttle. The Aquamist kit was a pretty nice kit with a wiring diagram for each year of the WRX and STI. It comes with a gauge that shows when your level is low and when the system is active or not and how much spray you are using.

i will have to msg @Visconti and aks him again we had talked about it before on the phone and im almost certain he said you can wire it into the ecu and control it with ecutek but dont hold me to it i could have totally misunderstood him because it was like midnight when i talked to him.

[ptuning]

Just thought we'd chime in here, since our name was mentioned in this thread.

First off, WMI is not snake oil. It's benefits, especially on this very high compression engine with boost, is as real as it gets. We know this through dyno testing and not through theorizing.

Can a tuner run 12psi or even 14 psi on 93 pump gas without it? Sure, but the timing is not going to even be in the same zip code as MBT.

You may start seeing a 3-5 WHP and even down to a 1-2 whp gain with the addition of each pound of boost beyond a certain level with 93 pump gas alone. Why? Because the timing will totally suck and we all know you need timing to make power.

The WMI will allow you to get the timing back to, or very close to MBT as you start running more boost.

Is it a possible POF? Sure, maybe 20-50 years ago when people were running washer or inline fuel pumps with throttle body switches, etc. However, the pumps, triggering mechanisms, and flow rate/failsafe systems have improved tremendously over the past few years alone making WMI as safe as it can be.

Combine our Low Level Sensor with the AEM WMI Failsafe and even an AEM WB Failsafe and you'll pretty much have a bulletproof failsafe system in place. 50/50 WMI, if tuned properly, will cause an AFR shift (should it fail) that can trigger the WB failsafe should your primary WMI flow rate failsafe stop working.

As far as a failsafe trigger goes, I'm sure we can convert a 12V failsafe trigger to work with the ECUTek RaceRom and pull a large arbitrary amount of timing during a WMI flow failure. However, we think it's a better idea to cut boost instead.

Cars with turbos would be tuned 100% on spring pressure without WMI. Above spring pressure levels, it will need to satisfy the failsafe flow criteria or boost will be cut. This allows you to not have to worry about driving the car in a "limp mode" with over-retarded timing that can cause high egt's, etc. You'll simply be back on a spring pressure tune until you can get your WMI tank refilled, etc.

On cars with centri-SC's, we would have the bypass valve open to prevent boost. This will allow owners to drive the car as if it were NA until they can address why their failsafe was triggered.

Hope this info helps.

[Tansey86]

Originally Posted by ptuning

Just thought we'd chime in here, since our name was mentioned in this thread.

First off, WMI is not snake oil. It's benefits, especially on this very high compression engine with boost, is as real as it gets. We know this through dyno testing and not through theorizing.

Can a tuner run 12psi or even 14 psi on 93 pump gas without it? Sure, but the timing is not going to even be in the same zip code as MBT.

You may start seeing a 3-5 WHP and even down to a 1-2 whp gain with the addition of each pound of boost beyond a certain level with 93 pump gas alone. Why? Because the timing will totally suck and we all know you need timing to make power.

The WMI will allow you to get the timing back to, or very close to MBT as you start running more boost.

Is it a possible POF? Sure, maybe 20-50 years ago when people were running washer or inline fuel pumps with throttle body switches, etc. However, the pumps, triggering mechanisms, and flow rate/failsafe systems have improved tremendously over the past few years alone making WMI as safe as it can be.

Combine our Low Level Sensor with the AEM WMI Failsafe and even an AEM WB Failsafe and you'll pretty much have a bulletproof failsafe system in place. 50/50 WMI, if tuned properly, will cause an AFR shift (should it fail) that can trigger the WB failsafe should your primary WMI flow rate failsafe stop working.

As far as a failsafe trigger goes, I'm sure we can convert a 12V failsafe trigger to work with the ECUTek RaceRom and pull a large arbitrary amount of timing during a WMI flow failure. However, we think it's a better idea to cut boost instead.

Cars with turbos would be tuned 100% on spring pressure without WMI. Above spring pressure levels, it will need to satisfy the failsafe flow criteria or boost will be cut. This allows you to not have to worry about driving the car in a "limp mode" with over-retarded timing that can cause high egt's, etc. You'll simply be back on a spring pressure tune until you can get your WMI tank refilled, etc.

On cars with centri-SC's, we would have the bypass valve open to prevent boost. This will allow owners to drive the car as if it were NA until they can address why their failsafe was triggered.

Hope this info helps.

Great information!

Can you elaborate on the lifespan of a WMI system? I understand that it is diluted, but methanol is still corrosive and I wanted to know if any part of the system ever has to be replaced? If so is there a realistic time-frame in which some parts may need replacing?

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by ptuning

Can a tuner run 12psi or even 14 psi on 93 pump gas without it? Sure, but the timing is not going to even be in the same zip code as MBT.

You may start seeing a 3-5 WHP and even down to a 1-2 whp gain with the addition of each pound of boost beyond a certain level with 93 pump gas alone. Why? Because the timing will totally suck and we all know you need timing to make power.

[ptuning]

Originally Posted by Tansey86

Great information!

Can you elaborate on the lifespan of a WMI system? I understand that it is diluted, but methanol is still corrosive and I wanted to know if any part of the system ever has to be replaced? If so is there a realistic time-frame in which some parts may need replacing?

The few pump failures we've seen in the past were on cars that sat around for 6 months to a year at a time without running. In cases like these, even the fuel pump can clunk out too.

Justin, our lead tech, has been using the same WMI pump and system for the past 7 years. It's seen use on his xA with the Blitz SC, non-intercooled Greddy Turbocharger, and now the PTUNING Turbo and Built Motor (stock cylinder head) combo.

His car currently makes 350+WHP on our DD Dyno with 93 octane pump and WMI. For the first 3-4 years, he was running just -20F blue windshield washer fluid, but has recently switched over to a 50/50 custom blend.

His xA currently has 147,000+ miles on the odometer. He estimates that his WMI pump has seen over 120K of use so far. So yeah, WMI can be very reliable.

[ptuning]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Sorry, wasn't knocking on anyone's tune. Just going by results of our own testing.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by ptuning

Sorry, wasn't knocking on anyone's tune. Just going by results of our own testing.

Yeah. I am still hoping to get back on a dyno and fine tune my ignition timing for MBT as you can't do that on a street tune.