I need some help here and I really think there are people on here that can.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by Dimman

There will be build threads. We even have a couple good ones now in 'Other cars'. BoostJunkie is building a BIG power Mk4 Supra and Dragonitti is building a turbo tC track weapon.

I cant read boostjunkies build cause it makes me wanna give up the ft86 and go for my MKIV Supra dreams

[Matador]

Overnight parts from Japan.

[no_name]

My philosophy: the number 1 change you can make to a car is the tires; they make you do everything better. So get the stickiest tires the chassis can take then upgrade the springs, dampers, bracing & bushings if you want to go stickier or the car will just roll and dive all over the place (my current problem). And stickier tires will make the brakes work harder, so then you'll need to upgrade those. If you want to make the car lighter, go on a diet & get a lightweight race battery. If you want more power, buy a different car.

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Don't have the facilities at the moment (can only do stuff on break at work).

And if anyone has some 1/8" titanium just lying around, my buddy the welder wants some practice on it. It can't be too expensive as a Fujitsubo full titanium cat-back for a Mk4 Supra is less than $2k. (WRX/STI etc... are over $3k, though?)

http://www.tein.com/products/fujitsubo_super_ti.html

We haven't started looking into sourcing Titanium as we were planning on starting with chrome-moly for structural steel parts, and 304 stainless, then 321 stainless for exhaust parts. Titanium would come if we did well enough to justify the up-front development money.

If we did strut bars in titanium, the initial material cost would be expensive as we would need bar/sheet stock that is big enough to cut the rings that mount over where shocks/struts are, and find something to do with the left-over inner circle once they are cut. Then the brackets and gussets welded to the rings. A machined mounting piece with a RH/LH threaded adjuster for pre-load that is bonded to a carbon/aramid main tube and bolted to the brackets. This would be a basic 2 point brace. We were planning on the above design starting with chrome-moly instead of the titanium. We've got cardboard templates and dimensioned design drawings that we did ourselves for a Mk3 Supra brace.

The amount of CF in a strut bar is ridiculously cheap, my other buddy used to do hoods and cover interior bits with CF and it's not near as $$$ as people think (a lot of labour though but 'sock' fabric which is a tubular weave that slips over a mandrel is easy).

We were working on getting some jigs and fixtures for this plus, exhausts and headers ready (welder was practicing 2-1 merge collectors), but a shop (3 car garage at a co-worker's place) I was going to rent fell through, the week before I was planning on buying a TIG welder, plasma cutter, and compressor.

Oh well... (actually I was so pissed I put up that rant thread in off-topic)

Whoa~~ Maybe I should be contacting you for struts! :P Help get some business in the states for you!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by no_name

And stickier tires will make the brakes work harder, so then you'll need to upgrade those. If you want to make the car lighter, go on a diet & get a lightweight race battery. If you want more power, buy a different car.

I agree on buying the best tires that you can live with (in terms of price/life), but stickier tires will make the brakes MORE effective, not less (by working harder they'd have to be less effective).

Assuming the car's brake system can handle the heat of hours of track use, all it will need are track pads for brake upgrades.

Truely upgrading brakes and maintaining proper bias is more difficult than most people realize..

Then again for many people brake upgrades would include slapping on a BBK with drilled rotors and calling it a day. :shrug:

[Neutral_Eyes]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Then again for many people brake upgrades would include slapping on a BBK with drilled rotors and calling it a day. :shrug:

And they do it because they want to stop sooner.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Don't have the facilities at the moment (can only do stuff on break at work).

And if anyone has some 1/8" titanium just lying around, my buddy the welder wants some practice on it. It can't be too expensive as a Fujitsubo full titanium cat-back for a Mk4 Supra is less than $2k. (WRX/STI etc... are over $3k, though?)

http://www.tein.com/products/fujitsubo_super_ti.html

We haven't started looking into sourcing Titanium as we were planning on starting with chrome-moly for structural steel parts, and 304 stainless, then 321 stainless for exhaust parts. Titanium would come if we did well enough to justify the up-front development money.

If we did strut bars in titanium, the initial material cost would be expensive as we would need bar/sheet stock that is big enough to cut the rings that mount over where shocks/struts are, and find something to do with the left-over inner circle once they are cut. Then the brackets and gussets welded to the rings. A machined mounting piece with a RH/LH threaded adjuster for pre-load that is bonded to a carbon/aramid main tube and bolted to the brackets. This would be a basic 2 point brace. We were planning on the above design starting with chrome-moly instead of the titanium. We've got cardboard templates and dimensioned design drawings that we did ourselves for a Mk3 Supra brace.

The amount of CF in a strut bar is ridiculously cheap, my other buddy used to do hoods and cover interior bits with CF and it's not near as $$$ as people think (a lot of labour though but 'sock' fabric which is a tubular weave that slips over a mandrel is easy).

We were working on getting some jigs and fixtures for this plus, exhausts and headers ready (welder was practicing 2-1 merge collectors), but a shop (3 car garage at a co-worker's place) I was going to rent fell through, the week before I was planning on buying a TIG welder, plasma cutter, and compressor.

Oh well... (actually I was so pissed I put up that rant thread in off-topic)

That would awesome. I remember you posting a rant about it. Hopefully you can get it going.

Speaking of CF, there is a local here that builds and fixes boats for a living through those business suite warehouse buildings. He was interested in making CF parts so he did the research and got all the necessary equipment. He as since mastered it and can make a cf piece for a lot less $. Word got around and now he's swamped that orders are taking months.

You've got a good trade going on.

Originally Posted by fatoni

a monster street car or track car? ohlins are great but kinda overrated. i would probably end up with ast or a nice koni.

Yeah, I could see how you would think it's overrated. Ohlins is pricey but what makes their suspension is that higher range of adjustibility and fine tuning; 10 clicks vs 20 clicks for exmple. Some people might not need 20 clicks and can dial in their suspension with 10 clicks.

Their main target group is motorcycles and I've been using their rear shock and fork cartridges and the difference is unreal. They just added the automotive section not too long ago so they are limited in applications.

-for example-
Tein Mono Flex-16 clicks $2200
Ohlins R/T-25 clicks $2700
HKS-Hipermax III-30 clicks $2100
Apex S1-20 clicks $1500
Cusco Zero 2E-5 clicks-$2500
BC Racing- 30 clicks- $1300

Having options is definitley a good thing. I ain't going to argue and say it's the best because there are a lot more coilovers to chose from. I've had a very good experience with Ohlins both on and off the track.

Not only are their US factory located in South Carolina but there are a few Ohlins specific shops that service and adding custom valving. I'm sure there are other shops that can rebuild/service other types of coilovers. Their customer service is what has kept me loyal them.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by RRnold

That would awesome. I remember you posting a rant about it. Hopefully you can get it going.

Speaking of CF, there is a local here that builds and fixes boats for a living through those business suite warehouse buildings. He was interested in making CF parts so he did the research and got all the necessary equipment. He as since mastered it and can make a cf piece for a lot less $. Word got around and now he's swamped that orders are taking months.

You've got a good trade going on.



Yeah, I could see how you would think it's overrated. Ohlins is pricey but what makes their suspension is that higher range of adjustibility and fine tuning; 10 clicks vs 20 clicks for exmple. Some people might not need 20 clicks and can dial in their suspension with 10 clicks.

Their main target group is motorcycles and I've been using their rear shock and fork cartridges and the difference is unreal. They just added the automotive section not too long ago so they are limited in applications.

-for example-
Tein Mono Flex-16 clicks $2200
Ohlins R/T-25 clicks $2700
HKS-Hipermax III-30 clicks $2100
Apex S1-20 clicks $1500
Cusco Zero 2E-5 clicks-$2500
BC Racing- 30 clicks- $1300

Having options is definitley a good thing. I ain't going to argue and say it's the best because there are a lot more coilovers to chose from. I've had a very good experience with Ohlins both on and off the track.

Not only are their US factory located in South Carolina but there are a few Ohlins specific shops that service and adding custom valving. I'm sure there are other shops that can rebuild/service other types of coilovers. Their customer service is what has kept me loyal them.

i think ohlins are overrated because they typically build shocks with less than ideal shock travel, not because of the quality of the product. they are expensive not because of their adjustability but because of the research they do for the product and the consistency of their products. i would buy them over the shocks you mentioned but i would rather spend that money on an ast4100 or a revalved bilstein setup. if you are serious about suspension you shouldnt be buying shocks without a shock dyno of the actual shock you buy.

"clicks" are overrated for a couple reasons. first, like you mention (i think) they are largely a product of marketing hype. second and most important, it is incredibly complicated to make an adjustable shock. cross talk is an issue and making the settings adjust linearly is expensive. also you get issues where adjusting down or up to a certain setting yeilds different damping rates.

shock adjustment isnt something that should be changed all the time. its to fine tune a shock to its spring and except for in rare cases should be left alone once a car is setup.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think ohlins are overrated because they typically build shocks with less than ideal shock travel, not because of the quality of the product. they are expensive not because of their adjustability but because of the research they do for the product and the consistency of their products. i would buy them over the shocks you mentioned but i would rather spend that money on an ast4100 or a revalved bilstein setup. if you are serious about suspension you shouldnt be buying shocks without a shock dyno of the actual shock you buy.

"clicks" are overrated for a couple reasons. first, like you mention (i think) they are largely a product of marketing hype. second and most important, it is incredibly complicated to make an adjustable shock. cross talk is an issue and making the settings adjust linearly is expensive. also you get issues where adjusting down or up to a certain setting yeilds different damping rates.

shock adjustment isnt something that should be changed all the time. its to fine tune a shock to its spring and except for in rare cases should be left alone once a car is setup.

If the shock is of high quality, the clicks should allow you to easily and repeatably set your shocks for tracks that you've tested on. ie: like you say, leave it alone once it's setup, but different tracks will want different setups, so if you record +4 rebound +3 bound for Laguna Seca, and go race at another track with different settings, when you go back to Laguna Seca you should be able to just click to +4 rb, +3 b and be off lapping like you were the last time.

Again this is provided the quality of the shock assures that the clicks are repeatable.

On my Supra I was looking at modifying some rebuildable/revalveable (but no click type adjustment, just revalve with different shim/disk packs) QA1 aluminum body shocks for it.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

If the shock is of high quality, the clicks should allow you to easily and repeatably set your shocks for tracks that you've tested on. ie: like you say, leave it alone once it's setup, but different tracks will want different setups, so if you record +4 rebound +3 bound for Laguna Seca, and go race at another track with different settings, when you go back to Laguna Seca you should be able to just click to +4 rb, +3 b and be off lapping like you were the last time.

Again this is provided the quality of the shock assures that the clicks are repeatable.

On my Supra I was looking at modifying some rebuildable/revalveable (but no click type adjustment, just revalve with different shim/disk packs) QA1 aluminum body shocks for it.

shock rebound and compression isnt a substitute for spring rate unless you are an estock autoxer or the like and cant change the springs. a shock is to control the suspension while the springrate is to keep the suspension in the ideal portion of a camber curve.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

shock rebound and compression isnt a substitute for spring rate unless you are an estock autoxer or the like and cant change the springs. a shock is to control the suspension while the springrate is to keep the suspension in the ideal portion of a camber curve.

What?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

What?

shock settings are car dependent not track dependent. adjusting them can be a quick fix but its not the ideal solution for whatever problems you may run into

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

shock settings are car dependent not track dependent. adjusting them can be a quick fix but its not the ideal solution for whatever problems you may run into

Jesus christ... Why do I bother?

Done with you.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Jesus christ... Why do I bother?

Done with you.

i dont kwow. i was also just saying that if youre spending money on shocks it would probably take an extra 500-600 so get an adjustable shock of a non adjustable one of similar quality. unless we are talking about something like a penske or jrz, your money would be spent on a higher quality shock