What is fast and enjoyable enough for you?

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I just want a little more power to push my aero. I lost 8mph on the half mile front straight at one track.

See if you can adjust some of the angle out of the wing. A lot of the aero benefit can be lost if the downforce is too severe and the extra grip in the corners is overshadowed by lower top speeds. Sometimes though the slightly lower speed on the straights is countered by the later braking that is possible.

[ZDan]

My holy grail would be a ~2500 lb. 250hp cab-rearward FR 2-seat fixed-roof coupe something like what's pictured below. Given what's on the market, FT86 is close enough and 2nd-gen looks like a decent improvement in power and torque

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by TommyW

See if you can adjust some of the angle out of the wing. A lot of the aero benefit can be lost if the downforce is too severe and the extra grip in the corners is overshadowed by lower top speeds. Sometimes though the slightly lower speed on the straights is countered by the later braking that is possible.

I have my AOA maxed at the minimum the adjusters will allow right now. I am going to turn them down in the lathe so I can run them shorter. I also took 3 inches out of the wing stays. Hopefully that does the trick.

[humfrz]

It don't much matter about the power anymore. mrs humfrz acts as a "governor" and limits the power output on our vehicles when I'm driving -

[shiumai]

'Fast and enjoyable enough' - that's actually a complex question, and tougher to answer than I thought. Maybe the simple answer would be 'as much power or speed that you can handle/drive at safely'. But it's more than that. Owning a fast car isn't necessarily the same as driving a fast car, and many drivers (including myself) may not be able to extract the full potential from a car. However, that's where 'enjoyment' comes into play, and it's different for everyone.

I drove a 1978 Datsun 280Z with triple webers for years, and owned it from 1985 to 2013 when I sold it to get the my 2013 BRZ (my first brand new car just for me - we've owned brand new family cars). I used to live at the base of the foothills, so drove that Z in the canyons a lot through college. I also rode sportbikes in the canyons on the weekends for more than 20 years, with track days thrown in there, so I got my taste of scary acceleration and occasionally exceeding the available traction.

I think that definitely influenced my desire (not 'need') for a car that was able to accelerate out of turns faster than the BRZ could. Of course, someone might argue that I just wasn't carrying enough speed through the corners, and they may very well be right, but that's what I wanted. So, that's what made me install an Edelbrock supercharger in the BRZ after owning it 3 years, and for me, it really added to my enjoyment in daily driving and the canyons.

The stupid valve spring recall affected my BRZ and being in CA, I was forced to return the car to stock to get the recall done, or else I wouldn't be able to register it. I paid to get it uninstalled, and I wasn't about to pay to get it reinstalled a second time, only to have some sort of issue with the recall, and have to uninstall it again, so I sold the supercharger. That whole experience kinda sucked out a lot of the enjoyment for me, unfortunately, as I missed what I once had.

My wife told me that if I were to get a new car, just to get one that I wanted without having to do any engine or drivetrain upgrades, so essentially this was a green light for me. She had seen me deal with modification issues for years (like not being able to register the Z in CA etc).

At the end of 2018, I started looking. Some of the cars I was looking at were the BMW M2/M4 and the 718 Cayman. When the C8 mid-engine Corvette was revealed in July 2019, and it was cheaper than those two cars, that was it. I put a deposit down in November 2019, and after more than a year of waiting, finally got it this past January. It was a friggin' long wait.

Yup, it's faster than I need and dare to use so far, but it's been thoroughly enjoyable. My son loves accompanying me on drives whether it's cruising up the coast or driving in the same canyons I rode my motorcycle in. It's definitely fast (more than enough), and with the magnetic suspension just sticks in the curves and feels so stable. It's just been a pleasure to drive on curvy roads so far. But 'enjoyment' also includes things other than power and speed - I like it's looks, luxury and how well it adapts to freeway driving, street driving, or spirited canyon driving (it has the magnetic ride control, different ride modes and even different exhaust loudness).

My wife let me keep the BRZ as my daily, so the C8 is just for pleasure, and I can honestly say that it's fast and enjoyable enough for me. It hits that 'sweet spot' for me that the OP mentioned; I'm happy with it, and that's all that really counts. I'm currently going through the same initial phase I went through in my first year of BRZ ownership with cosmetic mods to 'make it my own', and that's part of the enjoyment of owning a car to me.

[SUB-FT86]

I love a power to weight ratio no greater than 10/1 so 200hp/2000lbs - 289hp/2890lbs. I exceeded that with boost about 4 years ago and counting at 350hp(305whp)/2890lbs and I never yearn for more although its way easier to get a ticket now.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by shiumai

I drove a 1978 Datsun 280Z with triple webers for years,

Oh man!! The sound of Dell'Orto carburetors coming on cam sounded like a typhoon in my Gallant rally basher.

[gen3v8]

My triple SU`s were a song on my 6cyl red motor Commodore. I remember 30/70 for the cam.

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Oh man!! The sound of Dell'Orto carburetors coming on cam sounded like a typhoon in my Gallant rally basher.

Here's a thread where I compared the Z and the BRZ when I first got it:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35028

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by shiumai

Here's a thread where I compared the Z and the BRZ when I first got it:

.
This was my favourite pic. I could almost hear them.

[soundman98]

What is fast and enjoyable enough for you?

i skipped over everything to answer this question.

this car. in stock form. yes, i'm being serious. more than 200hp results in an uncomfortable visit from badge-wearing fellows.

[The Red One]

I found out that for me “fast enough” has 2 meanings.

When I’m going somewhere and get there in time anything is fast enough.
It gets somewhat complicated when I’m really just going nowhere, then nothing would be fast enough!

About that Enjoyable second part: Carry enough good tunes to listen and can forget about the ride.

My worst tickets were from some of the least powerful cars I ever owned.

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

.
This was my favourite pic. I could almost hear them.

I bet you could almost smell them too! That's one of the things my wife disliked about the car - it always smelled of gas!

[AnalogMan]

There is so much discussion, debate, and ranting out there about how much power is 'enough'. So many issues. I think it comes down to perception vs. reality, and real world vs. bragging rights.

The standards and requirements are different for those lucky enough to track their cars. That's a whole different situation from the rest of us that just drive on the street, on public roads.

We're living in the last days of the high-performance yet affordable internal combustion car. Things are often best just before the end. You can go out and buy a 400-500 hp Mustang or Camaro with performance that would have been unimaginable to the muscle cars of the 60's/70's. Even vanilla sedans have over 300 hp. So we can get spoiled with lofty hp numbers like these being thrown around.

There's a perception vs. reality issue of how much power people think they 'need'. When a Camry can be had with 300 hp, some people expect that anything less is somehow underpowered. But in the real world, how often do you actually use or need that much power? How often do most people need to rip off quarter mile runs against a big block? How much of that power can most people safely and knowledgeably use? How much of that power can anyone really use in most places without either endangering someone's life, or attracting the attention of people who will lock you up if you cross a line?

The reality is that most people can't make use of anywhere near the ultimate performance of many cars sold today, and most roads wouldn't allow it anyway (unless you live out in the desert or Montana). Which brings up real world vs. bragging rights. Many people are obsessed with "the numbers". 0-60 is a common one. A friend of mine seems to have memorized the '0-60' times from road tests for just about every car ever made. He loves to spout off how some car's 0-60 time is 0.2 seconds less than another one's, somehow making it 'better'. He also loves to brag about the 0-60 times of cars he's owned.

It's all nonsense and totally ridiculous. How often can anyone tear off a 0-60 run on public roads without, again, either endangering people's lives or attracting attention from people in uniforms who can take your license away? Especially with a standard transmission, how many regular drivers could properly launch a car and come remotely close to professionals doing a test on a track? How long would a clutch last if you did that regularly?

Some people get too balled up in "the numbers" instead of how a car actually feels to drive. When I drive a car, I never think about 0-60 or Nuburgring lap time numbers. I just care how it feels to me, if I'm having fun driving it. Some of the most fun cars I've ever driven would be considered laughably slow by today's standards or 'the numbers'. Opel GT, Karman-Ghia, just about any 1970's Fiat. All had around or less than 100 hp, and all were an absolute blast to drive. I never once thought about 0-60 times or any 'numbers'.

Then there's perception, or just parroting what's on the internet. Another friend of mine has an old Miata, a 1990, that he considers 'stupid fast'. Yet he laughed at me when I bought my BRZ because it's "so slow". Of course he's never driven a BRZ or even knows 'the numbers', but that's the impression he has from internet armchair racers.

Most of the time, numbers are just for bragging. If that somehow makes someone feel better about themselves, that some road test somewhere measured a 0-60 time a few tenths of a second faster than someone else's car, then I would suggest the money might be better spent on a good therapist.

As another thread talks about, the BRZ/86 has similar performance to a Ferrari 348 of not that long ago. That's how far engineering has come - an entry level sports car now has similar performance to a mega-buck super-car of just a couple of decades ago. Shouldn't that be enough power for anyone?