Only BRZ owners know how to drive...

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Cost has nothing to do with it since it is a paid for option not a "free" addition to all models. They make money on the cars that have it not lose money
God I can already hear the screams of anguish and the requests for instruction on how to rip it out if it came standard on the BRZ.
The wife's Impreza has it and I like the cruise and blind spot monitoring but all in all I call it the drunk/distracted package.

Here in AU some models that have eyesite, lane departure and such standard in other countries don't have it here.

Most makes do have them as standard.

There was a bit of an uproar over this, Ford are still sending over Mustangs without the added safety features, they score 3 out of 5 for ANCAP = not safe in this day and age, Ford Mustangs crash really bad, side impact collisions are a killer, the reasoning, cost.

We pay upwards of 75k for a 5.0.

Though, the 86 does not have the lane departure and other features, but it scores a 5 out of 5 because it crashes better and there is less chance of injury or death, still, IMO it should have them as well to score full safety marks



I vote for additional safety features in street cars

If you don't want them, take them out

Me, I want my family in the safest car possible, there are way to many idiots on the road who think they are Fangio, safety should not be an add on feature.

I personally would be happy to forgo creature comforts like a stereo, shiny knobs and plush trim for additional safety features.

LOL, Is said "shiny knob"

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by alan.chalkley

It is just my guestimate that if drivers learned how to drive and payed attention to where brick walls are located , then this would be much better than any electronic nanny systems.
Just coming from personal experience , with my own children and why cars were missing.

It will never happen. The vast majority of people do not enjoy the act of driving and want distractions. It will not go away no matter how well trained they are.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Here in AU some models that have eyesite, lane departure and such standard in other countries don't have it here.

Take the new Mustang for example, its standard in the US, not here.

The Mustangs ended up with a ANCAP rating of 3 out of 5 due to this

It was to keep the cost down

A base 5.0 here costs upwards of $75000

There are a few other makes and models here typical of this

There was a bit of an uproar over this, Ford are still sending them over without the added safety features, which you get standard in most other makes.

The 86 is just another one

We have the same mix here. It is totally up to the company if they make it standard. My wife could have bought the same trim level Impreza without it but she like all the bells and whistles. I do like some of the features but others are just a pain.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Cost has nothing to do with it since it is a paid for option not a "free" addition to all models. They make money on the cars that have it not lose money

Didn't it cost something to the manufacturer to develop the said technology in the first place ( man power / hours, technology, planning, etc) ? Then that total cost is then divided among the units of cars that are sold with that technology ( to then recoup costs / initial and continual investment). Am I off base here, not thinking correctly?

[86MLR]

As for the "drivers car", yes the 86 is marketed as a drivers car, people love that stuff, but not all owners are good drivers though.

Manufacturers MUST meet certain safety guidelines, as technology advances and changes, so do the guidelines, much like emissions requirements.

Cars are designed with the average joe in mind, not the enthusiast in mind, enthusiasts do driver training, track, khana and love to work out the hows and whys, the average joe doesn't.

I would rather the safety features to be mandatory, that way, when I'm having fun in the twisties with the nannies turned down or off, average joe in his 86 "drivers car" doesn't cross into my lane and kill me head on, or run up my rear because he is texting or playing with his stereo.

In the end you can turn the nannies down or off, just make sure when you do your ambition does not outweigh your abilities.

The ease that people get their licence is sad.

Here in AU you just drive the streets for 120 hours as a learner and you can get your licence, no defensive/advanced techniques are required, no emergecy stops are needed during testing, just sit in a car and drive.

I believe to get your car licence you should do alot more relevant driver training, emergency braking, skid pan, get them to lose control and show them what to do.

All of my kids do every driver training course they can, I get them on a wet and dry skid pan, how the hell does someone know what to do when they lose the rear end if they haven't practiced it.

How many people know how to use ABS properly when avoiding a kid running out on a road?

My kid does

But then my kid know how to service a car.

Basic mechanical principles should also be something that needs to be taught.

TL;DR: Stupid clouds

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Didn't it cost something to the manufacturer to develop the said technology in the first place ( man power / hours, technology, planning, etc) ? Then that total cost is then divided among the units of cars that are sold with that technology ( to then recoup costs / initial and continual investment). Am I off base here, not thinking correctly?

You nailed it. The implication that was made that I spoke to was that the manufacturers ignore safety because it cost them money. They don't. They just charge the customers for that safety.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

As for the "drivers car", yes the 86 is marketed as a drivers car, people love that stuff, but not all owners are good drivers though.

Manufacturers MUST meet certain safety guidelines, as technology advances and changes, so do the guidelines, much like emissions requirements.

Cars are designed with the average joe in mind, not the enthusiast in mind, enthusiasts do driver training, track, khana and love to work out the hows and whys, the average joe doesn't.

I would rather the safety features to be mandatory, that way, when I'm having fun in the twisties with the nannies turned down or off, average joe in his 86 "drivers car" doesn't cross into my lane and kill me head on, or run up my rear because he is texting or playing with his stereo.

In the end you can turn the nannies down or off, just make sure when you do your ambition does not outweigh your abilities.

The ease that people get their licence is sad.

Here in AU you just drive the streets for 120 hours as a learner and you can get your licence, no defensive/advanced techniques are required, no emergecy stops are needed during testing, just sit in a car and drive.

I believe to get your car licence you should do alot more relevant driver training, emergency braking, skid pan, get them to lose control and show them what to do.

All of my kids do every driver training course they can, I get them on a wet and dry skid pan, how the hell does someone know what to do when they lose the rear end if they haven't practiced it.

How many people know how to use ABS properly when avoiding a kid running out on a road?

My kid does

But then my kid know how to service a car.

Basic mechanical principles should also be something that needs to be taught.

TL;DR: Stupid clouds

I repeat.
Doesn't matter how much training you give them the vast majority of drivers on the road they will not apply it anyway. Mechanical principles, proper skid and braking and any other advanced skills mean nothing to them. They just want to point and go and the more the car does for them the better they like it.

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Didn't it cost something to the manufacturer to develop the said technology in the first place ( man power / hours, technology, planning, etc) ? Then that total cost is then divided among the units of cars that are sold with that technology ( to then recoup costs / initial and continual investment). Am I off base here, not thinking correctly?

Not completely off base but you've missed a big point. The cost of all this new nanny gadgetry is built into the price of ALL models produced by the manufacturer, not just the models that have it.
The twins price tags are not just due to their low volume but also because a percentage of it goes back to cover R&D used on other models.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

Not completely off base but you've missed a big point. The cost of all this new nanny gadgetry is built into the price of ALL models produced by the manufacturer, not just the models that have it.
The twins price tags are not just due to their low volume but also because a percentage of it goes back to cover R&D used on other models.

Well phrased.
And... on the models that have it and they charge extra as an option they are actually making more money since the RD costs are spread across the whole line up.

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

As for the "drivers car", yes the 86 is marketed as a drivers car, people love that stuff, but not all owners are good drivers though.

Manufacturers MUST meet certain safety guidelines, as technology advances and changes, so do the guidelines, much like emissions requirements.

Cars are designed with the average joe in mind, not the enthusiast in mind, enthusiasts do driver training, track, khana and love to work out the hows and whys, the average joe doesn't.

I would rather the safety features to be mandatory, that way, when I'm having fun in the twisties with the nannies turned down or off, average joe in his 86 "drivers car" doesn't cross into my lane and kill me head on, or run up my rear because he is texting or playing with his stereo.

In the end you can turn the nannies down or off, just make sure when you do your ambition does not outweigh your abilities.

The ease that people get their licence is sad.

Here in AU you just drive the streets for 120 hours as a learner and you can get your licence, no defensive/advanced techniques are required, no emergecy stops are needed during testing, just sit in a car and drive.

I believe to get your car licence you should do alot more relevant driver training, emergency braking, skid pan, get them to lose control and show them what to do.

All of my kids do every driver training course they can, I get them on a wet and dry skid pan, how the hell does someone know what to do when they lose the rear end if they haven't practiced it.

How many people know how to use ABS properly when avoiding a kid running out on a road?

My kid does

But then my kid know how to service a car.

Basic mechanical principles should also be something that needs to be taught.

TL;DR: Stupid clouds

The problem is the "average Joe" (and Jane) even with driver training, is a poorer operator than those from my kid's generation not to mention mine! Plus, as stated above, they have no interest in advancing their abilities further! Once they get it they move on to the next thing. There are too many things competing for young peoples attention today. The vast majority of kids today, even those from enthusiast households, are not willing to give up the other pursuits to put in the work to learn the skill of driving, let alone master it.
The dealership my wife works at is in need of three Class A mechanics. They can't get a decent apprentice. I think they have had four wash out due to poor attitude/abilities. Or, quit because it was too much like real work!

[Grady]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Well phrased.
And... on the models that have it and they charge extra as an option they are actually making more money since the RD costs are spread across the whole line up.

Oh so selling these cars is a Money thing? I thought the did it out of the love of cars!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Grady

Oh so selling these cars is a Money thing? I thought the did it out of the love of cars!

An amazing number of people seem to think exactly that.

[Swabodda]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

An amazing number of people seem to think exactly that.

I really miss rvoll.

[Ganthrithor]

They should just be honest and all these fucking features, "Text Assist"