Practicality of wider tires

[bfrank1972]

Shoot I'm at 45% already, only reason I'm not at 65% is I'm too cheap. And I'm a 46 year old caucasian dad with 2 daughters living in Westport, Connecticut.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Shoot I'm at 45% already, only reason I'm not at 65% is I'm too cheap. And I'm a 46 year old caucasian dad with 2 daughters living in Westport, Connecticut.

Great, and you've increased MY rice by selling me your wheels ( that are fantastic, thank youuu). I don't think headers should add to your rice level,. it's a proven modification since engines were a thing... the noise change, however..

[86 South Africa]

Width and grip are not correlated when looking for outright performance.
This has been debated many times and proven over and over (there’s a few good YouTube videos explaining this somewhere).
Grip comes primarily from tyre compound. Wider tyres of similar compound will generally last longer, but will not do much to add grip when cornering etc.

Toyota has said many times the OE tyres where chosen for fun (and probably cost and longevity).

Most people seem to think wider = grippier for some reason, but I reckon the trend is more to do with looks. Particularly on street cars.

[86 South Africa]

Width and grip are not correlated when looking for outright performance.
This has been debated many times and proven over and over (there’s a few good YouTube videos explaining this somewhere).
Grip comes primarily from tyre compound. Wider tyres of similar compound will generally last longer, but will not do much to add grip when cornering etc.

Toyota has said many times the OE tyres where chosen for fun (and probably cost and longevity).

Most people seem to think wider = grippier for some reason, but I reckon the trend is more to do with looks. Particularly on street cars.

[churchx]

225 is good choice on twins for practical reasons. To up grip for those that really need (as it's still too narrow for those that are after arguable looks), not requiring spendings on wheel upgrade too, and by chance 225/45/R17 are also much cheaper/more common tires then of our stock size.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by churchx

225 is good choice on twins for practical reasons. To up grip for those that really need (as it's still too narrow for those that are after arguable looks), not requiring spendings on wheel upgrade too, and by chance 225/45/R17 are also much cheaper/more common tires then of our stock size.

So are you giving me a break on my 5% for getting 225's? I appreciate the effort.... (The 215/45/R17 PS4S was both available and cheaper, by the way).

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

Great, and you've increased MY rice by selling me your wheels ( that are fantastic, thank youuu). I don't think headers should add to your rice level,. it's a proven modification since engines were a thing... the noise change, however..

So are bunches of things done to race cars. The only mods I can give no rice credit to are adding FI and improving the braking if you drive aggressively. I think the appropriate rice level for me is about 10% -- which means I've got 5% to go.

The real problem is that there is this constant voice in my head saying, "bigger wheels/tires, headers, exhaust, big exhaust tips, lower the car, etc." Perhaps we should write an essay on "The Ricer Within.....".

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Wide tires is the current trend, but keep in mind that the first WRX RA's and WRX STI RA's had 205/55 tires and power up to 280ps with turbo. A stickier tire on stock wheels or on lighter similar size wheels is all you need, unless you go more than 300ps.

Check here: http://www.type-ra.com/impreza-type-ra-specs/

There's also a weight difference between the first RA and the current RA of about 800lbs.

I would not put 205s on my current STI lol

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

Great, and you've increased MY rice by selling me your wheels ( that are fantastic, thank youuu). I don't think headers should add to your rice level,. it's a proven modification since engines were a thing... the noise change, however..

Hey! Glad you're enjoying them, and happy they are increasing your rice factor

I went through a phase where I was all about "maximum optimized performance" blah blah. Then I realized that it's a moving target. Stock tires are fun, and great for learning. They have some pretty undesirable characteristics, but the way they chirp, squeek, squeal, and complain under any sort of duress at all proves to be a great learning tool. Stock suspension could use a better compound. Upgrade your suspension and you really need a better compound, and possibly slightly wider tires. Change to 18" rims you're likely increasing unsprung weight/rotational mass. On and on. But - I like my coilovers not only for how they handle, but how easy they are to adjust, how nicely they dampen over weird imperfections in normal driving. I love how my 18's look & how they fill the wheel wells, despite their weight, scrub radius yadda yadda. I love my ride height, even though it's low enough to negatively impact my handling. On the street, my car without a doubt handles better than stock, and more than I'll need in 99% of my driving. I realized I'll get more personal enjoyment out of the aesthetics and I won't miss any subtle negative change in performance. YMMV

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Hey! Glad you're enjoying them, and happy they are increasing your rice factor

I went through a phase where I was all about "maximum optimized performance" blah blah. Then I realized that it's a moving target. Stock tires are fun, and great for learning. They have some pretty undesirable characteristics, but the way they chirp, squeek, squeal, and complain under any sort of duress at all proves to be a great learning tool. Stock suspension could use a better compound. Upgrade your suspension and you really need a better compound, and possibly slightly wider tires. Change to 18" rims you're likely increasing unsprung weight/rotational mass. On and on. But - I like my coilovers not only for how they handle, but how easy they are to adjust, how nicely they dampen over weird imperfections in normal driving. I love how my 18's look & how they fill the wheel wells, despite their weight, scrub radius yadda yadda. I love my ride height, even though it's low enough to negatively impact my handling. On the street, my car without a doubt handles better than stock, and more than I'll need in 99% of my driving. I realized I'll get more personal enjoyment out of the aesthetics and I won't miss any subtle negative change in performance. YMMV

Yeah I agree with moving target. After having over built previous cars' suspension, I'm only doing eibach pro kit, alignment, these wheels with decent tires and turbo. If you take all the roll out of the car, you end up driving faster until you find it..

[churchx]

Originally Posted by rvoll

So are you giving me a break on my 5% for getting 225's? I appreciate the effort.... (The 215/45/R17 PS4S was both available and cheaper, by the way).

Maybe US thing or particular tire model thing? (PS4S not sold in EU of 17" & 18" sizes, only PS4). But most tires i looked upon, summer or winter tires, PSS, PS4S, AD08R, RE71R, Xice3, Hakkas 7,8,R2, usually were 15-20% cheaper in 225/45/R17 vs 215/45/R17. If tire set lasts for me for 5-6 track days, noticeable savings, if i have to pay 100eur less per each set.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by churchx

Maybe US thing or particular tire model thing? (PS4S not sold in EU of 17" & 18" sizes, only PS4). But most tires i looked upon, summer or winter tires, PSS, PS4S, AD08R, RE71R, Xice3, Hakkas 7,8,R2, usually were 15-20% cheaper in 225/45/R17 vs 215/45/R17. If tire set lasts for me for 5-6 track days, noticeable savings, if i have to pay 100eur less per each set.

I'm an American... Nobody from another country has a valid opinion.....

Kidding aside, it probably has something to do with supply and demand. I've generally found that bigger tires cost more with only very few exceptions...

[Aluma007]

I've recently upgraded to 225/45/17 conti extreme contacts( similar to Pilot sports 4s) from 22k miles on stock primacies. Drove over 1000miles the day after they were mounted for a road trip and have driven around town on normal routes for about two weeks now. First thing i noticed...who moved my seat up? crank side handle down...nope. LOL! It raised the car up enough to throw off my perception...now I'm thinking I need some yellows. Second thing i noticed...who messed with my steering wheel? Feel has changed drastically. Its a little numb and has more weight to it. Feels like the wife's 2018 civic hatch with 18's (235/40/18). However, it has way more grip than it needs up front. Rear still shudders when I drive it from standstill, but it's much less than stocks and rear end doesn't break loose at any time now. very stable feel. Third thing I've noticed...car rolls over a little more than before on hard cornering. fourth thing...mpg's have dropped by about 2-3 (about 30-50miles less per tank) from what I could tell on a long trip I took vs same trip a couple months ago. Fifth thing...This particular tire has 7.6inches of tread and is mounted on an 8in wheel. side walls are almost vertical and look very good compared to the stocks which have an almost 45 degree stretch to its 7in tread on 8in wheels. Overall, I like the stability and the amazing comfort and quiet these tires provide, but I think a max performance tire is probably too much tire for these cars stock. I'll probably go either to an ultra high performance or keep the 215/45 next time...

[why?]

Originally Posted by Aluma007

I've recently upgraded to 225/45/17 conti extreme contacts( similar to Pilot sports 4s) from 22k miles on stock primacies. Drove over 1000miles the day after they were mounted for a road trip and have driven around town on normal routes for about two weeks now. First thing i noticed...who moved my seat up? crank side handle down...nope. LOL! It raised the car up enough to throw off my perception...now I'm thinking I need some yellows. Second thing i noticed...who messed with my steering wheel? Feel has changed drastically. Its a little numb and has more weight to it. Feels like the wife's 2018 civic hatch with 18's (235/40/18). However, it has way more grip than it needs up front. Rear still shudders when I drive it from standstill, but it's much less than stocks and rear end doesn't break loose at any time now. very stable feel. Third thing I've noticed...car rolls over a little more than before on hard cornering. fourth thing...mpg's have dropped by about 2-3 (about 30-50miles less per tank) from what I could tell on a long trip I took vs same trip a couple months ago. Fifth thing...This particular tire has 7.6inches of tread and is mounted on an 8in wheel. side walls are almost vertical and look very good compared to the stocks which have an almost 45 degree stretch to its 7in tread on 8in wheels. Overall, I like the stability and the amazing comfort and quiet these tires provide, but I think a max performance tire is probably too much tire for these cars stock. I'll probably go either to an ultra high performance or keep the 215/45 next time...

Or maybe even think of going down to a 205/45/17. This is a good mention of the things people don't talk about when going with bigger tires. For daily driving you just have no need for wider tires. The same tires in a smaller size would probably feel better to you and most people, but they want wider tires for looks and don't realize that compound matters much more than size right up until you are looking for that last second or so on track.