Considering the BRZ as a second car?

[ermax]

Sports car clutch? I bet you could cross reference the part numbers back to 20 other Toyota’s including a Corolla. Nah, nothing special about the clutch in our 200HP car.

[nikitopo]

Then go buy a Corolla. You would be happy even with this. It looks that you cannot find the difference.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by ermax

Correct due to kids....... just like the OP.

Yeah, but he isn't trying to build his own softball team like you are. He also said he sometimes drives to work without them.

When I was growing up, my dad drove an MGB to work every day for years. It was a practical car for him despite having two kids just like the OP. The BRZ would be considerably more practical with kids 6 and 4, because a 4 year old will still easily fit in the seat behind the six year old for a few years yet. Unless his family is freakishly tall, it's not going to become an issue for another six years at least.

So it still isn't a practical car for you. I see no reason at all why it would be impractical for OP except as a whiny excuse not to buy it.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Then go buy a Corolla. You would be happy even with this. It looks that you cannot find the difference.

I didn't say anyone should buy a Corolla. My point is our clutch isn't a special sports car clutch. It isn't hard to drive. It isn't a reason to sway away from the car. If you think it's unforgiving then you clearly haven't driven many cars.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Yeah, but he isn't trying to build his own softball team like you are. He also said he sometimes drives to work without them.

When I was growing up, my dad drove an MGB to work every day for years. It was a practical car for him despite having two kids just like the OP. The BRZ would be considerably more practical with kids 6 and 4, because a 4 year old will still easily fit in the seat behind the six year old for a few years yet. Unless his family is freakishly tall, it's not going to become an issue for another six years at least.

So it still isn't a practical car for you. I see no reason at all why it would be impractical for OP except as a whiny excuse not to buy it.

My mom refused to drive anything but sporty 2 doors and only with a MT. My mom's very first car with 4 doors and AT didn't come until she was 65. We (me and my two sisters) crammed in the back of an, 86, 89 and 91 Prelude over the years. All of those had a larger back seat than the Twins. We would do 7 hour road trips sometimes in those cars. But come on.. this isn't what I call practical. It worked and for her the pros outweigh the cons. Man people get so defensive of the Twins they can't even be realistic.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by ermax

I didn't say anyone should buy a Corolla. My point is our clutch isn't a special sports car clutch. It isn't hard to drive. It isn't a reason to sway away from the car. If you think it's unforgiving then you clearly haven't driven many cars.

I've driven at least 30 different MT cars. The BRZ clutch can be classified in the end of the list from easier to more difficult or notchy. I haven't said that it is undrivable or that it has any issue, but it is focused for a sports car. In fact, I 've changed recently to an Exedy Stage 2 clutch with a metallic disk (stock is also from Exedy) and for my preference I find it easier comparing to stock.

Same can be said about the transmission where the first gears are stiff when cold. If you want to educate yourself, read the story behind this:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...71&postcount=1

[ermax]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I've driven at least 30 different MT cars. The BRZ clutch can be classified in the end of the list from easier to more difficult or notchy. I haven't said that it is undrivable or that it has any issue, but it is focused for a sports car. In fact, I 've changed recently to an Exedy Stage 2 metalic clutch (stock is also from Exedy) and for my preference I find it easier comparing to stock.

Same can be said about the transmission where the first gears are stiff when cold. If you want to educate yourself, read the story behind this:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...71&postcount=1

Trust me, I don't need educating on how an MT works. I've done plenty of work on the internals of manual transmissions (not just a simple clutch swap). It's fairly common knowledge that trannys with short throws can be notchy when cold. Especially on trannys with direct linkage because everything that goes on in the tranny can be directly felt in your hand compared to that of cable linkage. But read just about any sporty car forum and you see thread after thread debating which fluid works best in to combat nochyness when cold. Again, our car isn't some special bread of MT.

Anyways, I kind of hate the use of the word "notchy". It sort of has a negative connotation. I will take the notchy, direct, percices rifle bolt feel over slop any day.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by ermax

But come on.. this isn't what I call practical.

Right. It's not what you would call practical.

I find the car to be extremely practical for my purposes, to the point that I hardly ever drive my Cherokee any more. OP may find it practical for his purposes. There are a lot of people in my area who drive brodozers. I would consider those extremely impractical for my purposes, yet those guys would be terrified in my car in traffic.

What's practical is relative. You are not the arbiter of practicality.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by ermax

Trust me, I don't need educating on how an MT works. I've done plenty of work on the internals of manual transmissions (not just a simple clutch swap). It's fairly common knowledge that trannys with short throws can be notchy when cold. Especially on trannys with direct linkage because everything that goes on in the tranny can be directly felt in your hand compared to that of cable linkage. But read just about any sporty car forum and you see thread after thread debating which fluid works best in to combat nochyness when cold. Again, our car isn't some special bread of MT.

I don't trust anyone trying to justify his arguments by mentioning that there are common parts with Corolla. This is misleading and it is not related with the overall feel of the car and the transmission. That's all. More details on the provided link. We are not talking here about irrelevant forums and other sporty cars.

Originally Posted by ermax

Anyways, I kind of hate the use of the word "notchy". It sort of has a negative connotation. I will take the notchy, direct, percices rifle bolt feel over slop any day.

I don't care if you like the word "notchy" or not. If OP has doubts he can test drive one and tell for himself. Experience and opinion is always relevant over here. Bye bye.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Experience and opinion is always relevant over here. Bye bye.

As long as it's your experience and opinion. Bye bye.

[MRCA1ST]

Since you're planning on having it as a second car, I think it is a great choice. I regularly have 3 kids in mine with a 6 year old in the back along with either a 8 or 10 year old on the other side and the remaining up front with me. These trips are 20 minutes or less, but even still there is plenty of room if only for occasional use. My 6 year old is short, so still uses a booster and sits indian style back there. The other two are taller and whoever is back there has enough room to put feet flat on the floor before sliding the passenger seat back leaving enough room for knees/legs. This is all without me adjusting my seat at all.

[ermax]

I took some coworkers to lunch the other day in my car. One of them was 6'2 and the other was 5'4. Obviously the 6'2 sat in the front. But on the way back from lunch he sat in the back instead and said he was more comfortable in the back than in the front with the seat all the way forward. I was kind of surprised by that.

[Pilot1226]

All, thank you for the overwhelming responses to my topic. I'm reading through them now - thank you for being so thorough. It's quite the dilemma!

Regarding the Boxer design - the plugs are pretty accessible from my Outback on the side. I know the 3.6's (6-cylinder Boxer for those not familiar) are a true beast because of the two plugs closest to the firewall... I would be surprised if this was different. Before I started doing my own maintenance, I believe the cost for a spark plug job in the 09 Legacy I used to own or even in my 11 Outback was around $250 at the dealership.

Thanks for all the real-world experience with people and things in the back seat and trunk. I figure I'm in the same boat as 6'0" with people not being able to sit behind me, but the rear passenger would be okay.

Okay, heard you all loud and clear about winters.

What bolt pattern would I use? Is it possible to get OEM steelies that fit on, say, a base model Legacy or Impreza or something like that, and then use OEM hubbies to hide the black steelie look?

How about TPMS sensors - I've used the QuickSet in the past, but I couldn't wake up the sensors that were in a factory sleep mode and had to pay a local shop a few bucks (not much) to "wake them up" using a tire tool.

Ideally I'd love to have a programmable TPMS in there, clone the codes from the original OEM rims, and that way I don't have to change the TPMS sensor registry.

Thanks again, all.

[ermax]

The plugs are really freakin tight against the subframe but doable. If you typically do this sort of stuff on other boxers you will be fine on this one. The trick is you have to get a deep well and a really stubby extension. You put the socket in on it's own, then the extension, then connect the ratchet. It's too tight to put it in the whole while everything is connected. Once you get it loose you can stick a flat head down there to separate the ratchet from the extension and then the extension from the socket. I then stuffed a piece of duct tape in there to grab the plug and pull it out. Others have used magnetic drill bit extension to retrieve the plug. It's kind of a pain but worth the $700 savings.

The rims are 5x100 hub centric with a 56.1mm bore.

I haven't messed with TPMS on this car. I know you can program them (I guess I should say "pair" them) on your own with the Toyota Techstream software (yes it works on the BRZ too). You can get an OBD2 cable that is compatible with Techstream for $18 on Amazon. They usually ship with a bootleg copy of Techstream but normally not the latest version. It's easy to find the latest on the internet though. A lot of what you read says it only works on XP x86 but it actually works fine on Win10x64. Cloning would be much easier but I have no experience with that.