Built FA20 by DSport?

[celek]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

@celek, that's your version of the FA225, as DSport lists it, correct?

What is the reasoning for custom rods and pistons as opposed to some of the off the shelf versions? To accommodate the FB25 crank?

Perhaps that block doesn't seem terribly far off since it's sleeved, but to me their motors seem pretty over priced.

What are your thoughts on the other short blocks you've seen on the market like the IAG products? I've been installing them for a few years in EJ land, but I've only had to pull one FA!

I used a $2400 HKS crank in mine because the oiling surface on the rod is more than the FB25 crank. the reason I do not like the complete HKS kit or this clubDSPORT kit or even the TODA kit is that they are using a short rod. the rod to stroke ratio then drops and causes more wear and side load on the piston skirt and rings, as well as the cylinder. Expect mass oil consumption and failure quickly.... Or as one report we have in here HKS rods breaking.

As for IAG they are not offering a sleeved 2.3 only stock cylinder closed decks with stock crank

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by celek

I used a $2400 HKS crank in mine because the oiling surface on the rod is more than the FB25 crank. the reason I do not like the complete HKS kit or this clubDSPORT kit or even the TODA kit is that they are using a short rod. the rod to stroke ratio then drops and causes more wear and side load on the piston skirt and rings, as well as the cylinder. Expect mass oil consumption and failure quickly.... Or as one report we have in here HKS rods breaking.

As for IAG they are not offering a sleeved 2.3 only stock cylinder closed decks with stock crank

Cool. What about off the shelf parts from the usual suspects in the US? (CP, Mahle, Wiesco, etc.)

Interesting insight as always. Thanks!

[celek]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

Cool. What about off the shelf parts from the usual suspects in the US? (CP, Mahle, Wiesco, etc.)

Interesting insight as always. Thanks!

well if you stick with Off the shelf parts for pistons you have to stick with an off the shelf rod. The problem is no one really makes an FB25 rod it has a 48mm diameter vs the 52mm(if i recall correctly) and different width. so you cant use off the shelf FA20 rods on a FB25 crank. You could use off the shelf FB25 rods and FA pistons but I am not sure the wrist pin diameter is the same or in the same location. Then you run into the short rod scenario stated above. I mean if you want to limit your RPM to like 6200 you could go that route.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by celek

Are you trying to build a complete extra engine? You could pull your own heads off and put them on the short block.
If you are trying to build another engine prepare for lots of money because you will need heads valve covers front cover chains and guides intake manifold ect....
Unless you buy a used complete engine for like $2000-2500 CAD then use those parts to build a forged engine

I have no idea. Basically my worry is that after I go FI, I'll get used to the power and want more. So instead of going FI right away, I'd get a built engine and then feel much more confident increasing the power to 400+ whp.

So you're saying with a short block and heads, that's all I'd need? The rest of the components I could use from my own engine? Sorry, I just have zero idea how it works, I'm not mechanically inclined.

[mrderp]

Have a laugh at the website. No mention of the FA20 on there.

http://clubdsport.com/faq-2/

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by celek

So wait...
A magazine company now builds engines?

Price-aside, they've had a pretty complete facility for years now.

http://dsportmag.com/the-scene/tour/...dia-shop-tour/

I've been there before and it has way more than just computers and Photoshop for magazines... long story short they bought a lot of the stuff that came from Cosworth USA, including their engine machinist.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

The ad said 'build of materials' instead of bill of materials.

I see a lot of red flags in this ad. I've installed shortblocks that arrive ready to go, built my own shortblocks, had local shops do drop ins, and had local shops do full builds.

I'm concerned that they are listing the same shortblock for the BRZ and WRX.
"increased...superior....improved..." What are the specs? Are they 'from the factory tolerance of X to our tolerances of Y'?

"OEM Quality forged steel crankshafts" Why not OEM?

Why not ONE bearing manufacture? 3/4 options of 'you might get one of these' is a bit concerning. Have they tested all these bearings extensively in this platform?

For two THOUSAND DOLLARS less, you can get an IAG Stage 3 FA20 shortblock, which appears to be similar/a dash better, with slightly lower CR. https://www.iagperformance.com/IAG-S...g-eng-1322.htm

The MAP build with an option here and there is $1,500 less.

What is it that magically makes this engine worth so much more? Advertisements in their own magazine? lol

The person that put the ad together missed a lot of info. But in case you didn't know, the FA20 in our cars is technically FA20D, and the FA20 in the 2015+ WRX is technically FA20F. The two are not the same engine but share similar design overall... hence the blanket "FA20 for FRS/BRZ and WRX" naming scheme.

As for the price, I already mentioned but they decided to invest in all this new fancy equipment and have someone come in that costs a lot to keep on staff to build engines. But yes, you can do the same for cheaper.

I mostly blame the ad copy guy for basically not advertising the strong points of why their engine build service is good.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by mav1178

The person that put the ad together missed a lot of info. But in case you didn't know, the FA20 in our cars is technically FA20D, and the FA20 in the 2015+ WRX is technically FA20F. The two are not the same engine but share similar design overall... hence the blanket "FA20 for FRS/BRZ and WRX" naming scheme.

As for the price, I already mentioned but they decided to invest in all this new fancy equipment and have someone come in that costs a lot to keep on staff to build engines. But yes, you can do the same for cheaper.

I mostly blame the ad copy guy for basically not advertising the strong points of why their engine build service is good.

I'm very well versed in EJ land and what is and isn't compatible, I'm admittedly not nearly as well versed in the compatibility of the FA motors back and forth.

Obviously aside from pistons/CR are the short blocks interchangeable? I imagined they would have a different piston/rod/bearing since they are such different executions from the factory.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

Obviously aside from pistons/CR are the short blocks interchangeable? I imagined they would have a different piston/rod/bearing since they are such different executions from the factory.

A rough overview:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/w6yjk7b/

I'm guessing the blocks are similar or almost the same, but beyond that when you think about cylinder liners, piston/rod, and other stuff the engine becomes drastically different.

Cylinder head is completely different. Even the exhaust manifold flange are different, but it's also interesting to note that the WRX FA20 and FB20 found in the base model Impreza (and other cars) have the same exhaust manifold gasket, whereas the FA20 in the BRZ share the same gasket with the EJ20/25 motors.

I'm going to speculate this mostly has to do with the manifold routing design and weight.

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by mav1178

A rough overview:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/w6yjk7b/

I'm guessing the blocks are similar or almost the same, but beyond that when you think about cylinder liners, piston/rod, and other stuff the engine becomes drastically different.

Cylinder head is completely different. Even the exhaust manifold flange are different, but it's also interesting to note that the WRX FA20 and FB20 found in the base model Impreza (and other cars) have the same exhaust manifold gasket, whereas the FA20 in the BRZ share the same gasket with the EJ20/25 motors.

I'm going to speculate this mostly has to do with the manifold routing design and weight.

Interesting. The wife has a crosstrek, and I've been thinking about a set of used JDL headers and a trip to my friends welding shop would be in order. Delicious has a flash and go set for it.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

Interesting. The wife has a crosstrek, and I've been thinking about a set of used JDL headers and a trip to my friends welding shop would be in order. Delicious has a flash and go set for it.

Here's what the BRZ (FA20/EJ20/EJ25)header flange looks like vs the FA20 (WRX) / FB20 gasket difference looks like when overlaying them:

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Here's what the BRZ (FA20/EJ20/EJ25)header flange looks like vs the FA20 (WRX) / FB20 gasket difference looks like when overlaying them:

Yeah I have no issues fabbing. I'd likely buy a stock FB20 header, and use the flanges so the mating is perfecto.

[celek]

Originally Posted by mav1178

A rough overview:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/w6yjk7b/

I'm guessing the blocks are similar or almost the same, but beyond that when you think about cylinder liners, piston/rod, and other stuff the engine becomes drastically different.

Cylinder head is completely different. Even the exhaust manifold flange are different, but it's also interesting to note that the WRX FA20 and FB20 found in the base model Impreza (and other cars) have the same exhaust manifold gasket, whereas the FA20 in the BRZ share the same gasket with the EJ20/25 motors.

I'm going to speculate this mostly has to do with the manifold routing design and weight.

99% sure the cross member location and engine mounting will not allow the overpipe to fit a crosstrek from a twin. Same with the 15+ WRX