summer tires in the winter?

[Ernest72]

I have Conti DW tires for summer on my 04 WRX. They have been stored in a shed on my summer rims through 4 winters already. No obvious issues from a spirited driving perspective. No tracking or autoX, so can't comment on grip at the extreme, but the tires have been great other than the soft sidewall. I am not concerned in the least bit.

[churchx]

4 seasons? Doesn't compound start to degrade for older tires due age? OK, now due newly found HPDE fun tires won't last even half of summer, but even if i'd drove less for tires to be still fine by legal thread depth, 3 seasons by my book should be max for them to perform optimal.

[Shinigami301]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Meh. And most will not be harmed in the least. They are tires made out of synthetic compounds not delicate tropical plants. They receive more "damage" from 15 minutes of track use than from being in the cold. If stored cold though you need to let them warm up gradually and most certainly do not try to use them at those temperatures.
Sure, as said, some very expensive top of the line tire may suffer from extreme cold but the guys using those tires are not asking the question.

You are a poster here who has earned considerable respect, but perhaps the body of information out there might outweigh your view on this specific matter. In the end, one can only go with manufacturer recommendations.

http://cccorvette.org/tech/TireCrack...03-10-001A.pdf

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=273

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...king/index.htm

http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=2923

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Shinigami301

You are a poster here who has earned considerable respect, but perhaps the body of information out there might outweigh your view on this specific matter. In the end, one can only go with manufacturer recommendations.

http://cccorvette.org/tech/TireCrack...03-10-001A.pdf

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=273

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...king/index.htm

http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=2923

Oh I think you missed where I said NEVER drive on them at those temperatures. Storing the car with them on or storing the tires is what I have been talking about when I said they were fine. Maybe I wasn't clear enough on that part.

What each of what you linked had to say in summary:

"Avoid driving, moving or test driving with these tires"

"Don't Drive Summer Performance Tires in Cold Temperatures"

" GM notably advising not to drive such vehicles during winter chills at the risk of developing"

"Avoid operating vehicle equipped in cold weather"

No place in any of those documents does it say that the tires being on a stationary car in the cold would harm them. It won't. Do the dealers run outside and change all the tires on all the cars on the lot with performance tires every winter? Nope. That is because they are fine if not driven on.

Only a moron drives on summer tires at anything even close to freezing for far more reasons than just them cracking.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by churchx

4 seasons? Doesn't compound start to degrade for older tires due age? OK, now due newly found HPDE fun tires won't last even half of summer, but even if i'd drove less for tires to be still fine by legal thread depth, 3 seasons by my book should be max for them to perform optimal.

The whole age thing is another issue that has been grossly blown out of proportion by the internet. Of course they age (everything does) but if not exposed to direct sun or left sitting in water for years on end they don't suddenly start to fall apart after 3 years. Much of that mythos is from back in the days of bias ply tires that were actually made out of real rubber. There have been no natural rubber products used in tires for 40 years or so. Tires can last for decades before they start to rot now. If parts start flying off your tires odds are you have bad alignment, they have been over heated or DRIVEN while below their rated temperatures. If they fell apart from age at 3 or 4 years as I have read on here then there would be millions of cars sitting on four flats and tire swings across the continent would be nothing but some steel belts hanging from a rope.

[ls1ac]

I read both comments and the referenced articles and do not see a contradiction.
They all seem to say that very high performance summer tires should not be STORED at very low temperatures as some loss of traction will occur. High performance tires should not be DRIVEN in very cold weather as damage may occur even at very low speeds.

[Shinigami301]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There have been no natural rubber products used in tires for 40 years or so.

Again, with all respect, Michelin says differently:

60% of rubber used in the tire industry is synthetic rubber, produced from petroleum-derived hydrocarbons, although natural rubber is still necessary for the remaining 40%.

http://thetiredigest.michelin.com/an...tire-materials

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Shinigami301

Again, with all respect, Michelin says differently:



http://thetiredigest.michelin.com/an...tire-materials

I stand corrected on that point then! I was told many years ago (pre internet) that there was no natural materials used and have never had reason to question or research the statement.

Tires still do not fall apart just because they get cold though.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ls1ac

I read both comments and the referenced articles and do not see a contradiction.
They all seem to say that very high performance summer tires should not be STORED at very low temperatures as some loss of traction will occur. High performance tires should not be DRIVEN in very cold weather as damage may occur even at very low speeds.

I read every word of all those again and fail to see one reference to storing the tires in the cold.

[Shinigami301]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I stand corrected on that point then! I was told many years ago (pre internet) that there was no natural materials used and have never had reason to question or research the statement.

Tires still do not fall apart just because they get cold though.

Agreed. A mechanical action would have to be combined with the cold to cause permanent damage.

Anyway, many tire makers seem to be making efforts to reduct the use of natural rubber.

Continental, for instance, says:

Between 10 and 30 percent of a car tire includes natural rubber, while truck tires can include proportionally higher amounts. Today, natural rubber is still obtained almost exclusively from the rubber tree (Hevea brasiliensis) which can only be cultivated in what is referred to as the “rubber belt” around the equator, a fraction of the world’s land surface. Global demand for natural rubber is set to rise in the next few years and at the same time, the changing world makes it challenging to meet this demand.

An interesting article on one alternative:

http://www.continentaltire.com/news/...res-dandelions

[ls1ac]

I have been looking for my original paperwork from Yokohama, as I do remember the warning about storage.

With some competition rules now requiring higher UTQG Treadwear ratings, Yokohama decided it was time to officially change the ADVAN Neova AD08R line's rating to accurately reflect its capabilities.*In order to help drivers confirm which tire they will receive, we have identified the tires by listing their Treadwear rating on the product Specs tab. Like the motorsports tires this Extreme Performance Summer street tire has evolved from, the ADVAN Neova AD08 R radial's construction and compounds have been tuned to maximize the tire's traction and performance within a specific range of ambient temperatures. Therefore, unlike less highly-tuned tires, Yokohama's care instructions specify that due to its compound characteristics, ADVAN Neova AD08 R tires must be serviced, stored and driven at temperatures above -10 degrees Celsius (14 degrees Fahrenheit) to maintain its performance and avoid tire damage.


This is a quote from tire rack.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by churchx

4 seasons? Doesn't compound start to degrade for older tires due age? OK, now due newly found HPDE fun tires won't last even half of summer, but even if i'd drove less for tires to be still fine by legal thread depth, 3 seasons by my book should be max for them to perform optimal.

For DD doubt anyone on here could even tell the difference at 2 seasons or 3 seasons. And who only drives there car under optimal performance - pretty much no-one.

I bought used wheels for winter once for my 04 WRX, but they came with really old and hard Yokohama envigor all seasons. I was gonna take them off but said let me see how they do in the winter. Well I was impressed, wet traction was great despite them being really hard. Ice sucked, but almost all tires do and snow was survivable, but not confidence inspiring. Braking was fine as well. Lasted all season in NY and swapped them for snows over the summer. Oldest tires I ever had on a car and they were fine, probably could have gone another season.

BTW, I will take any of your sub-optimal tires after 3 seasons and gladly use them. So I took that corner 5 mph slower, oh well, just going to work anyway.

[churchx]

Ernest72: i don't have any suboptimal tires anymore. Now i quickly kill what's left at track