Exoticspeed UEL header, Gruppe-S clone?

[Somerandom18]

http://www.frsport.com/Gent5-G1112-G...p_1478692.html

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[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by celek

Basically buy this for $150 although a WRX you see where I am going.
All these no name cheap companies have no innovation, just copy whats there and do a poor job.
You get what you pay for.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...35331.html?s=p

Yep but in the case of gruppe-s=exoticspeed=kinugawa=kamak reviews of fitment and quality have been good. Im sure there are good Chinese shops and bad ones. Sounds like these headers come from a good shop.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by Somerandom18

http://www.frsport.com/Gent5-G1112-G...p_1478692.html

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Those are the ones I will be reviewing, looks pretty much like the rest. FRSport did send me a pic of the merge collector and it looks clean. I will be taking my own pics for an unbiased review.

[nunonuna]

I may be wrong, but I believe those headers are all made from same factory (even Toemi included). My theory is this. Many of the overseas factories under subcontract with name brand have been doing this for decades. I think its same case.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by nunonuna

I may be wrong, but I believe those headers are all made from same factory (even Toemi included). My theory is this. Many of the overseas factories under subcontract with name brand have been doing this for decades. I think its same case.

What gets me is many people on here and other car forums are quick to call something a knockoff. Its the other way around really, a Chinese company makes a decent part and a big name company buys from them and puts there badge on it. So instead of ragging on someone for buying a "knockoff" part we should be making fun on someone who overpaid for a "re-badged" part.


On the corvette forums we found an ebay exhaust called NXT Step was out there. Granattelli one of the big names where selling them with their badge on it for a few hundred more markup. Naturally I went with the NXT Step and its still be going strong 7 years later. But im sure Granatelli made there bucks on people not connected to the car forums.


So the next question is what big name front pipe, catback sold by a big name is really a "rebadge" so I can get a good deal?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by celek

All these no name cheap companies have no innovation, just copy whats there and do a poor job.
You get what you pay for.

One of these days I hope the truth comes out.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

What gets me is many people on here and other car forums are quick to call something a knockoff. Its the other way around really, a Chinese company makes a decent part and a big name company buys from them and puts there badge on it. So instead of ragging on someone for buying a "knockoff" part we should be making fun on someone who overpaid for a "re-badged" part.

On the corvette forums we found an ebay exhaust called NXT Step was out there. Granattelli one of the big names where selling them with their badge on it for a few hundred more markup. Naturally I went with the NXT Step and its still be going strong 7 years later. But im sure Granatelli made there bucks on people not connected to the car forums.

So the next question is what big name front pipe, catback sold by a big name is really a "rebadge" so I can get a good deal?

While mostly true, "brand name" usually carries with it stronger product support, warranty, or secondary intangibles.

But at the end of the day, there's a reason why branded items in a supermarket sell better than their generic branded counterparts, even if it came from the same factory.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by mav1178

While mostly true, "brand name" usually carries with it stronger product support, warranty, or secondary intangibles.

But at the end of the day, there's a reason why branded items in a supermarket sell better than their generic branded counterparts, even if it came from the same factory.

Usually paying for the marketing, Colorful box, stickers in the box, celebrity endorsement ect.
But I do agree if its a reputable vendor on here it doesn't hurt to pay a few extra bucks for helping with problems or ease of returns or questions about use. As long as the markup isn't too high.

[Wayno]

They all come out of the same factory as Tomei. PSR was selling this header months before Gruppe-S. And yes, they're all totally fine.

[nunonuna]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

What gets me is many people on here and other car forums are quick to call something a knockoff. Its the other way around really, a Chinese company makes a decent part and a big name company buys from them and puts there badge on it. So instead of ragging on someone for buying a "knockoff" part we should be making fun on someone who overpaid for a "re-badged" part.

I really don't think it's the other way around in this case, but who knows. Usually R&D is done by brand name and they make subcontract with overseas factory to reduce the cost then whoever that factory makes copy by using different housing or slightly different design, but same functional quality is provided. This reminds me when I was teenager back in my home country, I went to factory who had contract with well known English brand(don't wanna say actual name lol) of stage speaker & amp to buy cheaper copy of small guitar amp. The only difference was the outer housing being cheap plastic, but inside exactly same & making same sound quality. Lmao

Originally Posted by SuperTom

So the next question is what big name front pipe, catback sold by a big name is really a "rebadge" so I can get a good deal?

It seems like this header and over pipe are the only case being copied/rebadged & made by same factory. I wish I know any as well.


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[mav1178]

Originally Posted by nunonuna

I really don't think it's the other way around in this case, but who knows. Usually R&D is done by brand name and they make subcontract with overseas factory to reduce the cost then whoever that factory makes copy by using different housing or slightly different design, but same functional quality is provided.

In the case of a well-known brand of wheels from Japan (leaving the name out for now), they used to just go to a foundry in Taiwan and work on designs.

They were given a choice of 1) paying for the mold outright and own all rights to it (each unique design $10-15k+ for cast wheels), 2) buy a minimum quantity and no one else can use the design for the length of the contract, or 3) don't buy a minimum quantity and the factory is free to sell the mold to others as long as no IP (names, branding, etc) was reused)

For about 7 or 8 years this was easily the most popular cast wheel on the market. Everything was bought in USD (instead of JPY) and the prices were stable and good. After the contract expired, the Japanese company chose not to renew the contract and the molds were subsequently destroyed.

[celek]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

Yep but in the case of gruppe-s=exoticspeed=kinugawa=kamak reviews of fitment and quality have been good. Im sure there are good Chinese shops and bad ones. Sounds like these headers come from a good shop.

Its not a matter of good or bad quality. the problem is a company for instance Nameless Performance spends a year of R&D and lots of money to bring you a quality tested piece perfected after several revisions. Then a company like PLM makes a copy, looks the same but actually under performs the original performance.

Looking the same fitting the same does not always mean it provides the same results. You can polish a turd but it is still a turd. Quality of materials coming from Asia also have too many variations steel with too much carbon and not enough nickle end up rusting and cracking.

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by celek

Its not a matter of good or bad quality. the problem is a company for instance Nameless Performance spends a year of R&D and lots of money to bring you a quality tested piece perfected after several revisions. Then a company like PLM makes a copy, looks the same but actually under performs the original performance.

Looking the same fitting the same does not always mean it provides the same results. You can polish a turd but it is still a turd. Quality of materials coming from Asia also have too many variations steel with too much carbon and not enough nickle end up rusting and cracking.

Really the only close way to know for sure for a quality piece is to buy American made and researched. If its made overseas even by a brand name then its most likely either a knockoff or a rebadge.

[celek]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

Really the only close way to know for sure for a quality piece is to buy American made and researched. If its made overseas even by a brand name then its most likely either a knockoff or a rebadge.

Not necessarily like you said there are good and bad factories in China. Some are run like a legitimate facility with ISO certifications. To keep those they have to legally operate within guidelines. They do take the work seriously and you can find a very reputable factory to reduce manufacturing costs. It is the "child sweat shops" you have to be worried about they make the knockoffs and copies which also exempts them from government certifications.

The certified companies have strict QA on materials and drawing specs, not so much on the copies, the cheaper the better.