Not another header thread...

[Chad_W]

I have an ACE header/overpipe and the rest of my exhaust is stock. No smell at any point and it's barely louder than stock.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Did you drive the car already? It is quite fast stock and very easy to go above speed limits in a few seconds. Catless headers provide a few gains, but not as much. It doesn't worth it, especially if it is strictly prohibited in your country.

So a catless header isn't worth it, but a throttle body is?

[D_Thissen]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Did you drive the car already? It is quite fast stock and very easy to go above speed limits in a few seconds. Catless headers provide a few gains, but not as much. It doesn't worth it, especially if it is strictly prohibited in your country.

Actually, a catless header provides some of the largest NA gains. I'm still waiting on your results from the bigger throttle body though.

[allowe]

I have the ofh +oft combo and yes it does smell however, it's not that strong. When you're idling it's more noticeable but when you're driving, it smells the same as before. Just make there are no leaks


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[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Cole

So a catless header isn't worth it, but a throttle body is?

I didn't mention anything about a throttle body. It looks that you don't understand what holds in other countries with regulations and what trouble someone will have if he get caught with a catless header.

Originally Posted by D_Thissen

Actually, a catless header provides some of the largest NA gains. I'm still waiting on your results from the bigger throttle body though.

The largest N/A gains are given by E85 fuel. Other important gains can be given by high-octane fuel. A catless header is much lower in the list of gains. Maybe you confuse a header change with a full exhaust change or with other combinations of parts.

Why are you waiting my results? I never said I'll make a dyno.

[D_Thissen]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I didn't mention anything about a throttle body. It looks that you don't understand what holds in other countries with regulations and what trouble someone will have if he get caught with a catless header.



The largest N/A gains are given by E85 fuel. Other important gains can be given by high-octane fuel. A catless header is much lower in the list of gains. Maybe you confuse a header change with a full exhaust change or with other combinations of parts.

Why are you waiting my results? I never said I'll make a dyno.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113092 post 12 is you.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I'll install a similar throttle body next week. I'll post results afterwards. Of what I've read, there is definitely a difference and it pulls stronger even in 6th gear at 2000 rpm.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by D_Thissen

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113092 post 12 is you.

Yes, I posted already butt dyno results. My car is definitely faster and in fact I am checking now to change the suspension. On the same highway roads under full throttle the ride is not so smooth anymore. Reason is because there is more acceleration. I didn't expect to have this issue, but I am trying now to keep the balance. However, keep in mind that my car is less than 2610 lbs. and there are also other modifications.

A dyno does not tell you always the truth, especially when the shops that doing the measurement are selling aftermarket parts. They'll try to convince you that the car is under-powered and to sell their own products. If this opinion does not count for you, then I cannot do anything else to change your mind.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I didn't mention anything about a throttle body. It looks that you don't understand what holds in other countries with regulations and what trouble someone will have if he get caught with a catless header.

I'm positive that every developed nation in the world has strict rules and harsh penalties for tampering with emissions equipment.

If you'd done any amount of reading, a header and tune makes the most power, with a nice bump given by e85. But, I wouldn't trust the words of someone who trusts a butt dyno, so not sure why anyone even takes your posts seriously after some of the things you've posted

[D_Thissen]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yes, I posted already butt dyno results. My car is definitely faster and in fact I am checking now to change the suspension. On the same highway roads under full throttle the ride is not so smooth anymore. Reason is because there is more acceleration. I didn't expect to have this issue, but I am trying now to keep the balance. However, keep in mind that my car is less than 2610 lbs. and there are also other modifications.

A dyno does not tell you always the truth, especially when the shops that doing the measurement are selling aftermarket parts. They'll try to convince you that the car is under-powered and to sell their own products. If this opinion does not count for you, then I cannot do anything else to change your mind.

A butt dyno is entirely useless though. There is zero data to back up the claim. While I agree that dynos aren't 100% accurate, you would be able to see if there was any net gain before and after you changed something.

Not every dyno is associated with a shop trying to sell you stuff. Sure if you went to a shop owned by K&N, AEM, Borla, Invidia ect then maybe the dyno is altered to favour sales. If you went to an independent shop, then there should be some accuracy. Even if the numbers themselves are incorrect, you would see if there was a gain or not.

The fact that you believe that a throttle body "alters the balance of your car because it accelerates so much better'' (paraphrase of course) proves that you fell victim to marketing.

[D_Thissen]

Originally Posted by skogs

..except that it is. Sorry! I have searched the forum, but not found an answer.

I am soon to be the lucky owner of a 2013 GT86, and the first mod will be OFT and maybe a catless OFH. Everything else will be stock.

Currently i am driving a catless Celica GT4, and it smells really intense when giving it the beans. I live in Norway, where you will be shot on sight if you modify your car, and i'm really tired of worrying about being pulled over.

So, is the smell or sound from the lack of the main cat obvious for the car behind while driving?

Sorry for the derailment op. If you keep the stock front pipe, there shouldn't be any issues with smell since there is a secondary catalytic converter in it. If you removed the stock front pipe for an aftermarket catless one, it will smell.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by D_Thissen

Sorry for the derailment op. If you keep the stock front pipe, there shouldn't be any issues with smell since there is a secondary catalytic converter in it. If you removed the stock front pipe for an aftermarket catless one, it will smell.

Not entirely true, but smell won't be a huge issue once the secondary cat is warm. Primary exists where it is particularly so it gets to operating temp quickly - if you have a catless header you'll likely have a bit of smell on cold start for a few minutes.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Cole

I wouldn't trust the words of someone who trusts a butt dyno, so not sure why anyone even takes your posts seriously after some of the things you've posted

If you don't have speed limits things are easier to make a butt dyno. You can check acceleration and top speeds on same parts of the road.

If you have speed limits, then butt dyno is not very useful. Nevertheless, I would still prefer someone to check his car on a race track and see if the lap times are improved, than to present a plain dyno result.

Originally Posted by D_Thissen

A butt dyno is entirely useless though. There is zero data to back up the claim. While I agree that dynos aren't 100% accurate, you would be able to see if there was any net gain before and after you changed something.

The fact that you believe that a throttle body "alters the balance of your car because it accelerates so much better'' (paraphrase of course) proves that you fell victim to marketing.

Check above for the butt dyno.

I felt a victim of marketing from STI and Toda Racing? Toda started selling products for our cars back in 2012. Do you know when they started selling a catless header? In 2016, almost after 4 years. Why it took them so long? They are saying it is recommended to increase first the engine displacement (2300cc kit) and then to change the header. They don't think the gains are so important with a stock engine.

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Not entirely true, but smell won't be a huge issue once the secondary cat is warm. Primary exists where it is particularly so it gets to operating temp quickly - if you have a catless header you'll likely have a bit of smell on cold start for a few minutes.

Back to the topic

I agree that the smell will be more when the engine is cold. However, it is not only the smell. It is very easy to see that a cat is missing if you open the hood. I am not sure about Norway, but here police does such kind of controls. I 've seen them even going underneath the car to check!

[Lantana frs]

I don't trust any of those jdm hentai houses. Why did cosworth choose to market a header?

[D_Thissen]

Really? So if I increased the displacement from 2.0 to 2.3l, it would result in more power ?