What the BRZ/FRS was made for (contributions are welcomed)

[ML]

My last autocross with my FRS I was next in raw time to 3 Mustang gt's by point 3 second s (completely different stock) and a BRZ with 245s had second in his class and 2 seconds on me!

[whaap]

Roadtriip needs to learn that there is a difference between a muscle car and a sports car.

[Shagaliscious]

To me the BRZ should have been less than $20,000 base price vehicle.

I disagree with this. I was actually glad that it was going to be over $25k. Weeds out some of the, "hey, this car looks cool & cheap, let's buy it" crowd. They generally won't appreciate this car for what it is.

[russv]

Highway 17 between Santa Cruz and Los Gatos in California is why the Frs/BRZ was built!

[Celicadude]

I think people wouldn't be saying this if they had an opportunity to drive these cars. Most people who are claiming a V6 Mustang or genesis coupe is more fun are basing it off of stats on a spreadsheet. But unfortunately trying to get a test drive (at least in my area) is like trying to test drive a 458 or something. They want deposits down for the car and credit checks etc etc. I don't think this would be much of an issue if scion/subaru had demo cars at some local dealers or held an actual comparison event against the competition somewhere that was open to the public as opposed to automotive journalists only. I was fortunate to get to drive one at the scion drive event, but I felt like they wasted too much time discussing the car, and less time giving us behind the wheel experience. Not to mention the cars had upgraded wheels and tires. If more people had an opportunity to at least get behind the wheel i think there would be more believers.

[Kunzite]

"To me the BRZ should have been less than $20,000 base price vehicle." - Where I live, the GT 86 is 32800 euro (that's about $41745); fully loaded though. But, go on, complain how your FR-S is too expensive...

[Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Kunzite

"To me the BRZ should have been less than $20,000 base price vehicle." - Where I live, the GT 86 is 32800 euro (that's about $41745); fully loaded though. But, go on, complain how your FR-S is too expensive...

But how much is a Yaris there?

Toyota is looking at the aftermarket support for the car, and thinking, "why do we need to develop things for the car? Everyone else is doing it for us, and it doesn't cost us anything."

The car was built to be a base platform. It is a car that is not going to feel big and heavy around town and especially not on track. I remember thinking that the days of small coupes were gone because of all of the safety regulations etc, but this car shows that it can still be done. The car is a blast to drive, and most people who complain about the price or performance have probably never even driven one.

As for competitor for similar price:http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/impreza-wrx/index.html

^But that is hardly the car I was looking for when I bought mine.

[Kunzite]

The Yaris is starting from 9800 euro, i.e. $12473 (base model); all prices have 24% VAT included. But it's not an imported car.

Back to the GT 86, I only got to drive it once, and in town. It was the auto (first time driving one of those, also), so I had to be careful with my left foot
The car felt amazing from the moment I was inside, before moving a meter; with everything fitting like a glove, and such a low sitting position. A purposely made sports car chassis can't be replaced by some modified hatchback or whatever, and IMHO deserves a small premium.
I'm glad there was none of those winding roads nearby, as right now it's not the best moment for me to buy such a car. Not having circuits nearby (I'm not an adept of street racing) doesn't help, either.

[Ingen]

Should have been under 20k?

Hah. Yes, you can have one for that, if you don't mind it missing an engine. I have driven the V6 mustang, and the new GT, and the genesis coupe. The Gen coupe is a joke compared to the twins. I felt like I was captaining a ship. It's a bit heavy and unwieldy, is what I"m trying to say.

The mustang GT is the best muscle bargain in the last 40 years, bar none. Welcome back to the table, Detroit. That said, it has a different purpose. I just got back from a backroad blast in my FR-S, and while I got stuck behind slow traffic I was still able to have lots of fun. If you took the mustang out and did what we can do in the FR-S you would end up sliding ass-first into a guard rail, best case scenario. Worst case is you would get someone killed. It is nowhere near as controllable or predictable as the FR-S and it's a lot of damned work.

If you want the fastest lap time, grab a mustang or a genesis, by all means. Be that man frowning at the track day and obsessing over your expensive tires and every 1/100th of a second, taking your carpet and passenger seat out looking for extra seconds. If you want to be the guy sliding around every turn effortlessly, laughing like a loon and driving his race car home, then get the FR-S.

Really, that's all there is to it. And to me, fun is infinitely more valuable than lap times because nobody pays me to turn laps. I don't need to be the best. I just want to have the most fun and worry the least.

[roddy]

Well said.

[TuxedoCartman]

This idea, that the Toyota 86 was made for touge driving, is why I've always frozen like a deer in headlights whenever somebody's said to me, "Nice car... is it fast?" My first sports car was a NB Miata, and a cross-section of cars I've owned since includes a Porsche Boxster S, 03 WRX, JCW Mini Cooper S, 96 Mustang Cobra, and C5 Corvette. And with every single one of those cars, I've heard myself stating in my head, "Well, it is fast, but only under X, Y, and Z conditions." I had my C5 Vette before the Z06 came out, and oh yeah in a straight line, that car felt like nothing on earth could catch it... but just didn't feel like it handled corners as well as my Miata. My Cobra felt fast, but even I knew it was an illusion (because it was slower than even the Vette in corners, and the wheels spun too easily, too frequently). The JCW Mini I'd tell people it was fast, but there was always that nagging "...for its class" hanging off the statement in the back of my mind.

My point is, "fast" is a relative term. Hell, most people are shocked nowadays to hear that a modern V-6 Mustang is as fast as the venerable '67 Shelby GT-500's were... all while handling corners better, and having AC, airbags, and nice soundproofing. Doesn't stop people from labeling the elder a fast car, but the newer is often derided as a "chick" car. But neither of them are as quick around an autocross course as a 20 year-old Miata that's been decently prepped, so what does that say? It's all dependent on where you're driving. I know for sure I'd be getting a lot more respect (and enjoyment) out of my FR-S if I lived somewhere like Nikko, Japan, and could drive it down Irohazaka highway... rather than being stuck out here in the desert, where the only decent twisty road around for like 300 miles is in the middle of a closed-loop park, which is always full of bicyclists and hikers. There, I could answer the question with a resounding, "Hell yeah!" instead of shrugging and going, "Yeah... I guess it's fast."

(Off topic bragging: yes, I've driven down Irohazaka on both a motorcycle and in a car, and it... was... AWESOME!!! Would trade vital bits of anatomy for a chance one day to take my FR-S down that road.)

[Ingen]

Cartman, no whining. It won't be long before they put a nurburgring clone in there, and even if the scenery is junk nd they call it the brown hell it will still rock.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

This idea, that the Toyota 86 was made for touge driving, is why I've always frozen like a deer in headlights whenever somebody's said to me, "Nice car... is it fast?"

I've been asked this question about 10 times already in the past 3 months and my answer is always the same: no.


I then go on to tell them how it's only a 4 cylinder with 160hp to the wheels and it doesn't have a turbo.

The less people that own the car, the rarer my car becomes

[TuxedoCartman]

Originally Posted by Ingen

Cartman, no whining. It won't be long before they put a nurburgring clone in there, and even if the scenery is junk nd they call it the brown hell it will still rock.

My whining shall stop the day they do! LOL... It's frustrating, because Spring Mountain Raceway is a fantastic racetrack... on course to be one of the best in the nation... but it's extremely difficult (and expensive) to get driving time out there. So as far as public roads go, we've got Red Rock Park (too busy; closed at night), Mt. Charleston (too unkept; big rocks always in the road), and a few small drives out by Lake Mead. For somebody who's lived in Colorado, and next to a lake in Missouri that had a wonderful set of roads surrounding it, it's like being in hell. Or rather, like being a JGTC or World Rally fan stuck at a NASCAR track.