FR-S vs S2000

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by AaronCompNetSys

I hate USDM STI seats. JDM v7 STI seats are some of the best in the world (for skinny guys), I've sat in a lot of aftermarket and have 2 sets. Better seats completely transforms the S2000 experience.

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/8247...i-seat-in-s2k/

phew... Those seats are great. I thought you put in the POS USDM seats. I had an 04 & 11 STi. And my hatred towards the seats run deep. LOL

I agree about the seats. I run SPGs and they are my favorite modification to the s2k.

[S2kphile]

Originally Posted by AaronCompNetSys

Nothing else is quite like the top down experience of an S2K on a perfect day. Try one with an experienced driver and be prepared to have your socks knocked off, its abilities are far beyond any normal car and most drivers.

Every spring, its like magic to put the top down for the first time. Shortly after is followed by sideways in my case...

Having owned a 06 AP2 I vouch for that statement. Nothing puts a smile on my face more then top down on a nice spring day watching the RPMs climb.

I'm surprised though that the BRz sits higher then the s2k. Is yours dropped or stock height?

[AaronCompNetSys]

Originally Posted by S2kphile

I'm surprised though that the BRz sits higher then the s2k. Is yours dropped or stock height?

Completely stock. I don't understand Subaru and their wheel gap issues. If the BRZ needs a roll center kit after dropping it to correct height, will be major :rollseyes:

[ZDan]

You're not going to find a front-engined (or, indeed, many if any mid- or rear-engined) cars that have the front fenders/hood as low as an S2000's. A Miata is on stilts in comparison, they HAVE to be brought down an inch to look like a proper low-slung sports car. Alas, so will the FR-S/BRZ... I blame the front struts as much as modern pedestrian impact standards (which are likely at least somewhat gotten around by the flat-4 engine).

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by AaronCompNetSys

Nothing else is quite like the top down experience of an S2K on a perfect day. Try one with an experienced driver and be prepared to have your socks knocked off, its abilities are far beyond any normal car and most drivers.

Every spring, its like magic to put the top down for the first time. Shortly after is followed by sideways in my case...

Living in New England means for me the top will be up 95% of the time. Those few days with the top down don't make up for the other 350 days where visibility (probably) sucks with the top up...

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I love the type of steering feedback where if you go over rough patches in the road you can feel them through the steering wheel and it twitches the steering wheel to make you more alert.

NA Miata, FD RX7 and even the RX8 had better steering feedback than the S2k. It's my only complaint about that car though and picky bitch is an understatement when it comes to my driving preferences.

The NA Miata is a great example of this because you could buy it with power assisted steering as an option but it totally ruined the car. Rack and Pinion was the way to go.

[AaronCompNetSys]

Originally Posted by pastuch

Rack and Pinion was the way to go.

Honda dealer tried to pull that line on me. "You have EPS which isn't the same as rack and pinion..." I won't be visiting that place again.

I need to meet one of you power-steering haters in person alongside your car to diagnose if I agree with you or think its just a figment of caster/tramlining. The Subaru rep on the BRZ reports that he can feel the EPS at speed but I have my doubts...

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by AaronCompNetSys

Honda dealer tried to pull that line on me. "You have EPS which isn't the same as rack and pinion..." I won't be visiting that place again.

I need to meet one of you power-steering haters in person alongside your car to diagnose if I agree with you or think its just a figment of caster/tramlining. The Subaru rep on the BRZ reports that he can feel the EPS at speed but I have my doubts...

When I said Rack and Pinion was the way to go I was specifically referring to the NA Miata. Power steering has come a long way in the last 22 years.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by pastuch

NA Miata, FD RX7 and even the RX8 had better steering feedback than the S2k.

I have both an FD and an S2k. Would tremendously prefer to have the S2k's 13.8:1 rack and EPS in the FD over the current 16.6:1 FD rack w/ GM G8 GT pump (similar pressure and flow rate to the FD pump).

A manual rack is great for a truly lightweight and/or mid-engined car, but not ideal (for me) if there's more than ~1200 lb. on the front wheels.

[86fanatic]

It is possible to have great steering feel AND a small steering ratio. The frs/brz will have a faster turning ratio then the S2000 and by all early accounts has the best assisted steering feel on the market. Sounds pretty perfect to me.

The S2000's very responsive steering is somewhat undone by the fact that you can't feel anything with the wheel. You need massive seat time in an S2000 to learn to predict what the car is going to do instead of using tactile clues like you would with, for example, an Elise or a 911.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

It is possible to have great steering feel AND a small steering ratio. The frs/brz will have a faster turning ratio then the S2000 and by all early accounts has the best assisted steering feel on the market. Sounds pretty perfect to me.

If true. I hope it is!

The S2000's very responsive steering is somewhat undone by the fact that you can't feel anything with the wheel. You need massive seat time in an S2000 to learn to predict what the car is going to do instead of using tactile clues like you would with, for example, an Elise or a 911.

Funny, I was able to predict what the car was going to do after my first track session in it.

Coming from a manual-rack 240Z, the S2000 does lack feel. But it's also razor-sharp, without any rubberiness or feel of lost/wasted effort (unlike some cars I've driven which have heavy but numb/laggy steering). Honestly, IMO it's not bad relative to other modern FR cars with power assisted steering. I've driven better power steering on the track, and I've driven worse.

If feel is a *little* lacking, for me it's more than made up for versus other cars by being very direct, precise, and responsive. (To a fault for many of the uninitiated)

[serialk11r]

Since we're on the topic of steering, what exactly are people even talking about when they say they can "feel the road through the steering wheel"? Forgive me if this sounds incredibly stupid, but isn't that called bump steer? What interaction between the road and tires will cause the steering rack to move around? If the steering doesn't have "lag", then that means the steering wheel position should be accurately reflecting on the position of the steering rack and tire angle, and isn't it better if the road doesn't make the car steer itself passively?

Again sorry ahead of time, but I am baffled.

[Marrk]

^^When I drove the Lotus Elise and the Lotus Evora, it was as though, if I had driven over a quarter, I could have felt it in the steering.

Hope that helps.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Marrk

^^When I drove the Lotus Elise and the Lotus Evora, it was as though, if I had driven over a quarter, I could have felt it in the steering.

Hope that helps.

So if you drive over a quarter with the left front wheel, which way does the steering wheel move to let you know that?