Scion FR-S Cover Article in new Road and Track Magazine

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

No worries. At first I was shocked Mini would sell that much car for $22k. But even $25.3k is a decent price for what you get. So I was kinda confused as well. But that is water under the bridge.



PAIT, do you have any further info on the active wings on the Cooper S coupe? I guess I should clarify. Is that something that is only active when you hit 70mph on the highway? Or will it be used under braking as well? Could it be used at the track for increased traction.

I wouldn't have a single clue about aero braking with this car or even a switch to manually have it raise for ricer points or track days. If it is engineered to raise at 50mph then that's where I'd keep it unless I'm at a track day I would fix it permanent to not wear the motor out.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

You're not alone, I think we all prefer it to be light and nimble too but ~75lbs isn't going to kill the car if that weight sacrifice is for a power(turbo).

Where is the turbo bit coming from? I'm not talking about turbo...was R&T talking about turbo? I was talking about quickly and easily noticeable weight differences and my preference that weight>power, almost to a point where most people on this board (barring Dimman) would think I was insane.

I would take 160hp and 2600lbs over 200hp and 2800lbs. Its not about 'raw' numbers, its about feel. That old saying "there's no replacement for displacement" is a lie, you can replace displacement with a different engine, or FI....there truly is no replacement for a naturally light-weight platform. You don't get the same feel driving a car that weighs near 3000lbs as you do one that's ~2500, there's a world of difference.

[PAImportTuner]

Sorry the turbo fanboyism was very strong in me at the time. Just give me a Honda Beat or Suzuki Cappuccino. Preferably the Suzuki.

[OldSkoolToys]

Those are both turbos....

Edit: And those are both in a different classification of car than even the AE86. I'm not looking for a K-car.

[PAImportTuner]

Only the suzuki is turbo, but yeah Kei car. no 2+2.

[ichitaka05]

LOL Fighter Engineering Cap! Love that machine!

[SUB-FT86]

I would rather have a FR-S over any MINI period and I'm not even crazy about the FR-S. Those cars look like clownmobiles and even though they made a coupe version it still doesn't do anything for me.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I would rather have a FR-S over any MINI period and I'm not even crazy about the FR-S. Those cars look like clownmobiles and even though they made a coupe version it still doesn't do anything for me.

You should of seen original Mini, those thing were crownmobile. I have seen in person twice and both time, I thought it was crownmobile

[bigbcraig]

TWO PAGES AGO we noticed:

Originally Posted by madfast

Yet we're still talking about a freakin' Mini?

The coupe is the same as the regular Mini, except

1. It won't have a surprisingly roomy interior with a hatch that can hold a lot

2. It looks like its trying so hard. The front still looks bloated and FWD, and the rear is trying to be all 'boy-racer' while still keeping its "cute" curves.

Who the hell cares?

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

It's funny how some people feel Hyundai wont keep the V6 with a upgraded 2.0T. The power difference between both the 2.0t and V6 will be significant enough because the price difference isn't 5-8k like a Mustang V6 vs V8. Allow me to show you noobs what I mean.

2011 Mustang V6 Base 305 hp $22,900
2011 Mustang V8 412 hp $29,900+ more features also!

Power difference is 107 hp for $7k

2012-13 Genesis coupe 2.0T R-Spec 270 hp $25,500(added 500 for D/I)
2012-13 Genesis coupe 3.8 R-Spec 340 hp $28,500(added 500 for D/I)+ more standard features also!

Power difference is 70 hp for $3k

Now which one offers more power for the money?


My point is? Hyundai isn't stupid, the price will be much closer because the performance isn't going to be a 100+ hp difference.

In the USA I COMPLETELY agree with you. The problem is that V6 GCs everywhere else on earth are substantially more expensive. The Genesis Coupe R-Spec is only available in the US. The base 3.8 in Canada starts at $33k. The base 2.0T starts at $24900k. For us it's $8100 difference instead of $3000. In Canada the dealers typically sell cars with the stock engine for the same price as the US cars. As soon as you go up an engine size (4 to v6 or v6 to v8) the prices go through the roof. Certain manufacturers (Hyundai & Ford) are giving us really big cash rebates right now because our dollar is so strong. Hyundai is doing VERY well in Canada, I see as many GCs as Mustangs now!

Canada:
Mustang V6 Base: $22999
Mustang GT Base: $38500

How about $16000 extra for a V8? This is why everyone that wants buy the GT imports it from the US (Or SHOULD!).

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by bigbcraig

I feel like this car really isn't designed to compete with the Mustang / Genesis / Z, but instead people were on target comparing it to the new Si and the GTI, and perhaps the MX-5.
The FR-S isn't going to be big on power but instead will be a sharp-handling, cheap car. The insurance shouldn't be anywhere near the newer powerful coupes.

ROFL....

Come to Canada. In Ontario a Honda Civic SI is more expensive to insure than a Mustang GT! No I'm not kidding. The Civic is the highest selling car in Canada for 20 years in a row and the most stolen. Ontario has the highest insurance rates of any state or province in North America.

My insurance quotes (Desjardins Insurance):

30 year old Male, no tickets, 1 fender-bender 4 years ago, $1000 Deductible

Genesis Coupe 2.0T $1300
Mustang V6: $1366
Mustang GT: $1518
Honda Civic SI: $1528
Corvette: $1538
Porsche 911: $2333

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by bigbcraig

TWO PAGES AGO we noticed:



Yet we're still talking about a freakin' Mini?

The coupe is the same as the regular Mini, except

1. It won't have a surprisingly roomy interior with a hatch that can hold a lot

2. It looks like its trying so hard. The front still looks bloated and FWD, and the rear is trying to be all 'boy-racer' while still keeping its "cute" curves.

Who the hell cares?

I'm 6'2" and have a ton of headroom in a Mini.

Car may be cute and boy racer, WTF do you think the FRS is going to be? Muscular, I see more boy racers, woman, girls and old men driving this car as much as the Mini!! LMAO. Anyways the Mini has great.. GREAT handling and it's FWD. The interior is great(style is arguable), the engine and twin-scroll turbo is awesome and leaves a lot of room to grow for a ~2600# car. For $24-25k BMW hot-hatch entity you can't complain. You still have the choice of a regular non-coupe Cooper S argument 1 is thrown out.

You guys can play it off all you want, the FRS will compete with the MS3, Miata, SI, Cooper S, Gencoupe and even the WRX. Anything that is sporty, fun and in the 20s NEW will be it's direct competitor.

Also the reason for bringing 2-seaters in the 20s into the equation is the fact how much room will those 2 extra seats in the FRS give? And is this car going to be a hatch/liftback to better utilize those seats and cargo capacity when they are not in use. At that point a Miata or Mini coupe would come into play, because those seats are useless.

[bigbcraig]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

I'm 6'2" and have a ton of headroom in a Mini.

Car may be cute and boy racer, WTF do you think the FRS is going to be? Muscular, I see more boy racers, woman, girls and old men driving this car as much as the Mini!! LMAO. Anyways the Mini has great.. GREAT handling and it's FWD. The interior is great(style is arguable), the engine and twin-scroll turbo is awesome and leaves a lot of room to grow for a ~2600# car. For $24-25k BMW hot-hatch entity you can't complain. You still have the choice of a regular non-coupe Cooper S argument 1 is thrown out.

You guys can play it off all you want, the FRS will compete with the MS3, Miata, SI, Cooper S, Gencoupe and even the WRX. Anything that is sporty, fun and in the 20s NEW will be it's direct competitor.

Also the reason for bringing 2-seaters in the 20s into the equation is the fact how much room will those 2 extra seats in the FRS give? And is this car going to be a hatch/liftback to better utilize those seats and cargo capacity when they are not in use. At that point a Miata or Mini coupe would come into play, because those seats are useless.

I wasn't calling you out in the normal 'flame PA!' of this forum, in fact I often support what you say (or at least appreciate that you say it intelligently).

Nevertheless, I guess I sounded harsh to the Mini so I'll accept your response. FWIW, one of my good friends drove a relatively early turbo S and after he convinced his parents to buy him an E46 M3 ( spoiled brat), I drove it quite a bit.

-I'm 6'1"-6'2" and the Mini gives me almost as much headroom as my WRX (if you've never sat in an 08+, try). Which is great.

-The Mini indeed does drive great, with the exception of torque steer (Yes, I've driven one of the new turbo ones, its very much there).

-The gearing of a Mini and the way the engine drives made me always feel obnoxious, always driving at 1-2kRPM more than I would in my WRX; but when you wanted to, it would accelerate very well.

-Interior does a fantastic job of maximizing interior room and after a little while, really grew on me even though I'm not a 'mini person'.

-On the last page before you posted the Mini, I posted pretty thoroughly that I think it will compete with Si / GTI / Miata (Mini as well, didn'ti nclude it there). I don't think it'll really be a WRX-GC cometitor but instead will be approached as a RWD alternative to the entry level sporty cars as aforementioned, but whatever.

-The FR-S will absolutely be boy-racer if not a bit anonymous; I'm saying it doesnt fit the Mini (see below).

-Not exactly sure what you meant, but... The +2 rears will be convenient for putting daily bags or whatever into; and as I live in Atlanta I'd much prefer a trunk to a hatch where people can see into the back; but you're not wrong.

Here is what I really meant:
Yes, the Mini is a fantastic little hatch. Its roomy, has a high-quality interior, is a blast to drive, generates unbelievable levels of grip, and is hella quick.

BUT,
I don't get the Mini Coupe. The Mini does a great job of being fun to drive and surprisingly practical. The coupe raises the price a little and reduces the rear hatch room a LOT. I don't like the new looks at all - the front is still the classic snubnose Mini while the greenhouse is trying to be all low and swept and it just looks wrong to me.
The Mini already has a really low CoG anyway, especially for a hatch, and IIRC the coupe doesn't shave any weight off of the car does it?

I just see the Coupe as taking the roofline that 'makes' the Mini, both in making it feel huge inside and visually, and throwing that away for pure vanity, IMHO in vain.

If they made a new front end and changed the drivetrain orientation put the engine behind the axle (think saab sonnet) and swept/lowered the whole car's bodywork, that would be awesome. But otherwise, it's a stunted Mini for a bit more dough IMO.

And I'd rather talk more about what the competitors of the FR-S in a comparison / expectation light than "OOh Shiny! "Active Aero!!!!11!1one"

[ft86cbx]

Originally Posted by bigbcraig

-On the last page before you posted the Mini, I posted pretty thoroughly that I think it will compete with Si / GTI / Miata (Mini as well, didn'ti nclude it there). I don't think it'll really be a WRX-GC cometitor but instead will be approached as a RWD alternative to the entry level sporty cars as aforementioned, but whatever.

I would have expected it to compete more along the lines of the audi tt more than a civic and a golf (if thats the UK equivalent of SI/GTI), and the RX8 if that had been around...