FRS/BRZ vs 2013 Base Mustang GT

[alyon]

Originally Posted by fatoni

yeah but that happens to many cars. my point was just that i think mustangs up until this one were er...one trick ponies that were substandard in every other category other than straight line speed. the newer car seems better built both in terms of performance and quality. i dont think its going to bottom out like previous generations.

I can agree with performance but I am still shaky on calling the mustang a high quality car. Yes, they have done wonders with the engine but many of the other things such as the transmission seem very cheap and likely won't last long.

And whose going to want a 2013 mustang when they do a huge revision in 2014? Every time this happens the people who bought the 2013 get absolutely hosed. It is like if Toyota all of the sudden brought a 250hp Fr-s to the market for 2014. I would get hosed on resale.

It is just a reality of buying new cars. Always some risk involved.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by alyon

I can agree with performance but I am still shaky on calling the mustang a high quality car. Yes, they have done wonders with the engine but many of the other things such as the transmission seem very cheap and likely won't last long.

And whose going to want a 2013 mustang when they do a huge revision in 2014? Every time this happens the people who bought the 2013 get absolutely hosed. It is like if Toyota all of the sudden brought a 250hp Fr-s to the market for 2014. I would get hosed on resale.

It is just a reality of buying new cars. Always some risk involved.

well i dont know about high quality either but i think its come a long way. the great part about what youre concerned about is that nobody is going to want a 2013 and hopefully they will get deeply discounted. it happened to the miata in 09 with the 08s (right around cash for clunkers) i think. it ruined the used market but if you are in a position to buy, you stand to get a great value. when the 13s were released they were taking over 3k off the 12. i could only imagine that this time around would be even more significant

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by fatoni

theres no need for apology because a)star specs arent the tires that we were discussing, we were talking about the 300 treadwear htrz III which isnt in the same league b) the 2.3 seconds shaved was noted on a different track so that doesnt directly relate to the head to head and c)even if it did, that was a v6 and the time difference still does not make the brz faster than the mustang gt

I didn't think you would man up.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Except the report of someone shaving 3 seconds off their lap times simply by changing tires. And my personal experience and probably the experience of anyone else out there with track time. And yes anyone can do what I did for no more than the cost of a tank of gasoline. And changing tires is still stock. You can ignore the printed comments of the test drivers if you wish, in my opinion the BRZ is faster on equal spec rubber.

Originally Posted by sdiver68

The GT is probably faster then the V6. The racer comments in the article stated that the Mustangs sloppy live rear axle was the limiting factor somewhat made up for by race-spec tires.

Here's how to get new max performance summer tires for free or close to it. A set of Sumitomo HTRZIII is around $450 shipped from TireRack in FT86 sizes. These tires are extremely well reviewed and tested. When you are making your deal with the dealer for the car, get a free mount/balance of the tire swap included in the agreement. Then sell the OEM rubber on Craigslist for 1/2 of list price or $400. I did a version of this and it works out great, although mine included new wheels and required no deal with the dealer since I knew I wanted my stock wheels for winter tires.

You are right, faster is not a matter of opinion, you are the one who is having trouble accepting the tremendous difference in tires as the reason for the lap times. If I can find the post with the 3 second differential from tire swap only, I'll link to it.

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Hey Fatoni, where is your retract and apology now that the Road and Track video has been posted that shows 2.3 seconds per lap simply by changing to performance tires?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/vi...-a-faster-fr-s

We can't let statements like yours go unchecked can we?

Originally Posted by sdiver68

I didn't think you would man up.

if by man up you mean say that dropping 2.3 seconds means dropping 3 seconds...no im not doing that

also, did they seriously use a different outer diameter on that last test?

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

I didn't think you would man up.

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

I didn't think you would man up.

The internet: Where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents.

[SnapOv3st3r]

What would be interesting is if the Twins, spark the birth of the next Supra. And then the Supra gets compared to the Mustang GT. Watch the script flip and people claim the Supra is a different kinda of car and shouldn't be compared to the Mustang GT.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

What would be interesting is if the Twins, spark the birth of the next Supra. And then the Supra gets compared to the Mustang GT. Watch the script flip and people claim the Supra is a different kinda of car and shouldn't be compared to the Mustang GT.

i would love a supra but i dont know that it would flip the script. the thing about mustang vs frs is that they are in the same price range. unless you expect the new supra to be the same price as the frs then yeah that would be cool. if the supra ever exists again, its likely going to have go head to head with a different mustang

[Laika]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

Well I'm 24, I usually only reference things I've personal experience dealing with. In this case I would have been driving a big wheel.

FWD!?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Laika

FWD!?

I think that picture proves that tricycles suck, even rwd tricycles. (except for the DeltaWing, but technically it's not a trike).

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i would love a supra but i dont know that it would flip the script. the thing about mustang vs frs is that they are in the same price range. unless you expect the new supra to be the same price as the frs then yeah that would be cool. if the supra ever exists again, its likely going to have go head to head with a different mustang

A Miata cost as much as a Mustang GT too....

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

A Miata cost as much as a Mustang GT too....

So? The mustang is a better performance car than the miata too.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

So? The mustang is a better performance car than the miata too.

Don't see a Miata owner cross shopping with a Mustang GT, that's my point.

Do you own a Mustang? You plan on buying one?

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Don't see a Miata owner cross shopping with a Mustang GT, that's my point.

And again, why not? "I've got 35k and want a toy. Let's look around."

You have this notion that everyone knows exactly what they want in a car before they start shopping.

I've also seen this idea that since a person has, let's say, 80k to drop on a car, that this entails that they must then spend that entire 80k on a car and shouldn't consider an FT86. Why?