Is anyone else on the fence due to the engine choice?

[Ryephile]

old greg: Thanks for the BMEP comparison numbers. 150lb/ft sounds on-par for what I would expect. Taking some liberties with the numbers and assuming the VE drops a about 6% at redline:

200HP = [140Lb/Ft*7500RPM]/5252

[fatoni]

i just hope the strengths outweigh the disadvantages. thats all im really saying. id rather have an inline 4 and room for double wishbone suspension. i bet a better camber curve helps handling more than the lowered cg. it seems to me for whatever reason boxers dont get great mileage and naturally aspirated boxers seem like a bitch to work on and require more work to make power.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by SOB

150 ft/lbs is weak sauce. Definitely will not be buying if its that little. Rather buy the Focus ST at that point.

Bye

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Bye

LMAO some ppl just don't understand. Big HP/TQ isn't always the answer

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

LMAO some ppl just don't understand. Big HP/TQ isn't always the answer

We will see if Toyota/Scion feels that their targeted potential customers understand or not...

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

We will see if Toyota/Scion feels that their targeted potential customers understand or not...

True... that's the main thing! Who Toyota/Scion is targeting in US...

[JohnnyR]

I'm fine with the motor choice (excellent for handling characteristics, and beautiful sound), just a little disappointed there's no snail on it. If they went that route, the motor probably would have been overbuilt a bit for some more wiggle room, but being NA it'll take some serious work to get some good power out of it.

But I accepted the car for what it's going to be for me; a fun DD to mess around with while my track machine is in the garage.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

I'm fine with the motor choice (excellent for handling characteristics, and beautiful sound), just a little disappointed there's no snail on it. If they went that route, the motor probably would have been overbuilt a bit for some more wiggle room, but being NA it'll take some serious work to get some good power out of it.

But I accepted the car for what it's going to be for me; a fun DD to mess around with while my track machine is in the garage.

Not if they built it right. There are at least a few N/A motors that make decent turbo motors. Whether the FB20 will make a good turbo engine remains to be seen . Ichitaka is our resident boxer fanatic and he's said before that the N/A EJ's weren't too boost friendly. So we'll see...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Not if they built it right. There are at least a few N/A motors that make decent turbo motors. Whether the FB20 will make a good turbo engine remains to be seen . Ichitaka is our resident boxer fanatic and he's said before that the N/A EJ's weren't too boost friendly. So we'll see...

what na motors like fi? newer motors seem to hate it with the wicked high compression ratios and such. i am out of my element on this one so its a genuine quetion. not internet ****ery

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by fatoni

what na motors like fi? newer motors seem to hate it with the wicked high compression ratios and such. i am out of my element on this one so its a genuine quetion. not internet ****ery

The F20C and F22C for one. I know the L15 vtec in the USDM can take 19 maybe 20lbs before they start to blow headgaskets, although most probably stop at .7-.9 bar since they dd them. Ironically the only ones I'm too familiar with are Hondas :/. I do far more reading than building though so add salt to flavor.

The trick is good engine tuning, something I'm not too handy at . Smaller narrow bore engines are bit better for boost, but not alot better mind you.
If you're really interested you could look through the enthusiast forums for turbo builds. If the engine has enough of a following there's bound to be plenty of people pushing the limits for stock blocks . So you could use their experience to gauge how boost friendly the engines are.

Admitably there are quite a few newer N/A engines that make poor turbo engines, the Nissan 6 cylinder in the Fairlady (aka 350z/370z/G35/G37) is bad in this aspect. Ichitaka has said something like this for the Subaru EJ engines. Although I have seen a few crazy stock engine builds on the smaller bore EJ18, so it might be bore dependent .

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The F20C and F22C for one. I know the L15 vtec in the USDM can take 19 maybe 20lbs before they start to blow headgaskets, although most probably stop at .7-.9 bar since they dd them. Ironically the only ones I'm too familiar with are Hondas :/. I do far more reading than building though so add salt to flavor.

The trick is good engine tuning, something I'm not too handy at . Smaller narrow bore engines are bit better for boost, but not alot better mind you.
If you're really interested you could look through the enthusiast forums for turbo builds. If the engine has enough of a following there's bound to be plenty of people pushing the limits for stock blocks . So you could use their experience to gauge how boost friendly the engines are.

Admitably there are quite a few newer N/A engines that make poor turbo engines, the Nissan 6 cylinder in the Fairlady (aka 350z/370z/G35/G37) is bad in this aspect. Ichitaka has said something like this for the Subaru EJ engines. Although I have seen a few crazy stock engine builds on the smaller bore EJ18, so it might be bore dependent .

i wouldnt go as far as to say f20s are boost friendly. ive never seen one run anywhere near 20 lbs of boost without e85 or race fuel. i dont know anything about the l15 or whatever

[ichitaka05]

Look at LS series, they get boost (not turbo, but sc). They handle well. VQ engine is another one. They handle awesomely boosted. I don't remember reading VQ engine been busting up... yet.

[impulse]

Never had a problem with the engine.

Boxer engine kinda made me raise an eyebrow though when I first heard about the FT-86 using one. "Wait, why isn't Toyota making their own engine for this one?" I wondered. "Why aren't they using an inline-4?"

But hey, if it's for the sake of handling, I'll gladly go with that.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Look at LS series, they get boost (not turbo, but sc). They handle well. VQ engine is another one. They handle awesomely boosted. I don't remember reading VQ engine been busting up... yet.

while they still make the ls i wouldnt go as far as calling it a newer motor