Um guys? Scion's Own FT86 Coming to New York Show Next month?

[NESW20]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Drifting never was, is not and will never be a fucking motorsport. Get a rally program or touring car program, then we can talk.

pretty sure Toyota's making a car that will run in the FIA WTCC and maybe the BTCC also. oh how i can't wait for that!

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by blur

Basically your telling me it's all about watching rather than participating. Thinking "yea, the engine block from my tc is in that beast" kind of thing. But knowing you can never actually attempt the things they do.

It's Drifting professionally, not many people can aspire or have the desire to go to that level to begin with, no matter what they drive. It's an extremely expensive sport to get into. I use to drift with my 350z before selling it. I will do some with the FT, but don't see myself turning pro with it.

A 350z enthusiast isn't naive enough to think he is going to swap in a Titan V8 into his 350z, gut/cage it, install a hydo-hand brake, dual brakes on the rear...etc, etc...and turn into a pro drifter no more so than a Scion enthusiast turning into a Pro drifter. If you have some idea that this is only a Scion thing, you are mistaken. All the FD top cars are well above anything the normal fan looking from the outside-in, will get to aspire to. You don't get those types of things until you have put in a lot of seat time in your average 240sx at local drift meets. FD is no longer a grassroots event. Takes big $, you would be stupid to think you are going to just walk into FD and be successful.

Originally Posted by blur

We cant compare FWD cars to RWD cars. Especially in straight line performance. Im asking . . . TC converted to RWD Vs stock GEN 2.0t, why spend 2x the cost for something to get nearly the same result (minus warantee among other things) BTW. 2.0T shares the engine with the evo x, are you saying that engine is weaker than your Tc too? lol

Why can't you compare? A fast car is a fast car no? What does a 10sec FWD car have in common with a 10sec RWD car? They both run 10secs. Anyhow, I highly doubt you will have the same results building a RWD tC and trying to compare it to a stock Gen 2.0T. That car is pretty heavy. Weight, gear ratio, power...all come into play. If you are speaking generally in terms of same results as being..."they both can get sideways", then again, it's a matter of preference. Do you want to build something, or do you want to buy it. I know the 2.0T shares it's engine with the Evo X, however they are not internally the same. And I'm saying the 2.0T from what I've seen, I am not impressed with it.

A person doing a RWD conversion on a tC is hardly concerned with their warranty....lol. I boosted my second tC after 3 months of having it. I Don't care about warranty.

Originally Posted by blur

Almost negligible. Tc weights 400lbs less than GEN; with all the modification, it will about even out.

And you know this from what data you have collected? They would be removing the components from the front and re-installing components that came for the rear. If anything, the weight difference would still come out to be the same in difference between the two.

Originally Posted by blur

I asked.. why is it the only FWD to RWD conversion in FD? Why don't we see civics drifting, and other FWDs being drivetrain converted to drift? I'm familiar with the rules, I see you mention them all the time. And by the money spent, I mean just to allow the TC to drift your looking at 15-20K. Why not just buy a RWD car such as the genesis, or if you have that cash, say, a Supra? lol

I answered you. FD RULES bud. No Civic has an AWD chassis, thus does not meet FD rules.

Again, preference. If I or any other person wanted to spend 15k+ on a conversion, it's his/her money to do so. If they want to be different, who's to say they are wrong and you are right? This is no different than asking someone why they build a Civic motor and boost it vs just buying an Evo. Or why they modified their Evo to extreme rather than just buying an R35.

And FYI....there was an exhibition run at the Atlanta FD round where a guy had a RWD Integra.

Originally Posted by blur

And it's obvious that you completely deflected my questions. Yea, because every car that doesnt meet the rules gets to drift in FD season after season LOL. Oh and, you thought wrong. Now, back to my question. Please answer this time. Hell, I'll even copy and paste for you. "But then why buy it to drift it in the first place? Why doesnt Fredric Aasbo keep the Supra he drove over the new tube chassis scion he's getting built? After all, wouldnt that be cheaper and easier to maintain during the season? Are you honestly going to quote me and tell me that converting a drivetrain and dumping tons of cash into a FWD car designed for cool kids is better than a tried and proven platform?"

Deflect your question? How so? I'm not following you, I answered you. Why don't you ask Aasbo, do I look like an Aasbo representative? He has his reasons. tC could be lighter than the Supra, pack the same HP out of the 4cly engine (lighter than the I6 or whatever being run in the Supra). Not saying it can make MORE HP than the Supra, just saying the amount necessary for Drifting it could be ran the same in the 4banger and be in a lighter car. Again, that's just my assumption. You nor I have an answer as to what Aasbo's game plan is.

A driver's main goal is to just drive and not have to worry about financial burdens or mechanical ones....thus getting a team and someone to foot the bill, you will go where there is an open door. And I surely don't surely hope you don't believe Scion is the only company throwing money to drivers. Ford, GM....toss plenty of money into FD.

Would it be proper to call it a forum full of noobs then? lol (coming from the absence of care for the FT86)

Thanks for quick reply

Then that would equate to calling every forum other than a dedicated FT-86 forum, a forum full of noobs. Since your definition was that they had one thread in it about the FT. How many threads do you think there are over on Infiniti FX, Lexus, Camry, Corolla...etc. forums. It doesn't have to have a crap ton of FT-86 talk on a forum to deem it worthy bro. Not to mention, but there are like 10 Scion enthusiast related forums out there. I'm sure you visited every one of them right?

Originally Posted by blur

btw. I remember playing forza and converting the Tc to RWD, haha . . . it was a fun little car after that.

GT5 > Forza

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Drifting never was, is not and will never be a fucking motorsport. Get a rally program or touring car program, then we can talk.

Who said anything about Drifting only? Hmm...lets see...Time Attack, Road Racing, Endurance racing, Drag....they have records and championships in all the following.

You going to say those aren't Motorsports either? Is that all that you are aware of, is just their Drifting program....Oh my friend, you need to get out a little more often...

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

...Drifting never was, is not and will never be a fucking motorsport. Get a rally program or touring car program, then we can talk.

That's just silly Matador. Of course Drifting is a "Motorsport." Don't be blind simply because you don't like/hate a certain sport. I understand the racing credibility of rally or touring car program but the tC and the FT-86 don't really fall into either of those categories.

The tC gets to be RWD converted because it uses an AWD chassis for it's platform.

And from my limited experience researching RWD conversions, a midrange DIY conversion is $5k-$10k depending on whether you upgrade parts, get custom fabbing, or contract out any of it. A professional RWD conversion for grassroots is often too expensive and therefore wasteful since you could just start out with a RWD car. Most grassroots motorsports ban or discourage FWD->RWD conversions anyway.

[Archer256]

lol come on people - if it's a Scion that doesnt mean the design will change. The scion badge will be for U.S. only kinda like how a Acura TSX is a Honda Accord in the rest of the world.

Toyota will make the design as they see fit, make the interior as they see fit, slap a Scion badge on it and tell Scion to sell this car for such and such price range and they are making such and such optional addons or such and such features are optional. The End.

I will say i kinda wish there was an AWD drive option or a system like how the Infiniti G has - RWD but itll activate AWD as needed (awd is very useful for places like...chicago in the winter )

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Drifting never was, is not and will never be a fucking motorsport. Get a rally program or touring car program, then we can talk.

Oh not this again Matador. You know full well its an actual motorsport, its just your bias against the sub-subculture that has sprouted from it.

Don't make me bust out official definitions.

[Dragonitti]

Yo Blur.....


Here you go bro. Aasbo joining NFS/Rockstar

[blur]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Yo Blur.....
Here you go bro. Aasbo joining NFS/Rockstar

I'm not sure what your trying to say?
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011...011-scion.aspx
Thats what I'm referring to.

And since every answer I have to your points is similar, I'll group it . . . you call it being different, but how many Tcs are currently in (big) motorsports . . . ? And nearly all of them are drivetrain converted. Point is, its just unnecessary, they're not being different(I see a scion every time I watch anything), it's not preference and your completely changing what the car was intended to do. Theres barely any benefit over the cost. Its completely useless . . . unless someones paying you to do it. And thats why its fake.

In a perfect world, FD wouldnt be about tube chassis purpose built drift cars with drivetrain swaps, engine swaps etc. These cars barely resemble their counterparts. Scions not the only one to do it, but it is the most obvious one... I mean, I dont think a guy just said, "hey, lets take a scion shell, and put a nascar v8 and drift it; for fun". No, its for $$ from sponsors. And that upsets me.

Preference can only go so far. Calling using Tc for preference is blasphemy.

Also, thanks for clearing the point on other drivetrain converted cars up. I realized shortly after I posted, but there has to be more 4wd chassis that are FWD right now.. that can be converted.

btw: GOOD NEWS! for drifting. Tsuchiya created his own drift league, hopefully this one stays true to grassroots drifting.
http://www.driftinjapan.com/2011/03/...r-and-pro.html

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

That's just silly Matador. Of course Drifting is a "Motorsport." Don't be blind simply because you don't like/hate a certain sport. I understand the racing credibility of rally or touring car program but the tC and the FT-86 don't really fall into either of those categories.

I actually quite enjoy watching drifting. Even more so during and IRC/WRC event. What exactly would be wrong with a tC rallying or doing touring? BTCC in fact use majority fwd cars. Shucks, Toyota UK just donated a few Avensis to be the basis of the NGTC. What exactly would be out of place?

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Oh not this again Matador. You know full well its an actual motorsport, its just your bias against the sub-subculture that has sprouted from it.

Don't make me bust out official definitions.

Yeah sure. Drifting is an actual motorsport because you know, they consider figure skating, synchronized swimming and diving sports too.

Motorsport = competing for position, or against the clock. Bust out every fucking definition you want, it will still won't change jack shit.

Rally is awesome, Gymkhana and the Togue spectacular. Why take a technique that one has to subjectively judge and try to make it it's own sport?

It is retarded. Period.

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Who said anything about Drifting only? Hmm...lets see...Time Attack, Road Racing, Endurance racing, Drag....they have records and championships in all the following.

You going to say those aren't Motorsports either? Is that all that you are aware of, is just their Drifting program....Oh my friend, you need to get out a little more often...

I'm quite aware of their other programs (surprisingly enough, as they aren't exactly big budget), though I'd say they are pumping money into marketing, rather than motorsport. Just my opinion though, and I could give a rats ass what you think, because you figure you're right because you can figuratively shout louder.

[alexmotrix]

Originally Posted by blur

I'm not sure what your trying to say?
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011...011-scion.aspx
Thats what I'm referring to.

And since every answer I have to your points is similar, I'll group it . . . you call it being different, but how many Tcs are currently in (big) motorsports . . . ? And nearly all of them are drivetrain converted. Point is, its just unnecessary, they're not being different(I see a scion every time I watch anything), it's not preference and your completely changing what the car was intended to do. Theres barely any benefit over the cost. Its completely useless . . . unless someones paying you to do it. And thats why its fake.

In a perfect world, FD wouldnt be about tube chassis purpose built drift cars with drivetrain swaps, engine swaps etc. These cars barely resemble their counterparts. Scions not the only one to do it, but it is the most obvious one... I mean, I dont think a guy just said, "hey, lets take a scion shell, and put a nascar v8 and drift it; for fun". No, its for $$ from sponsors. And that upsets me.

Preference can only go so far. Calling using Tc for preference is blasphemy.

Also, thanks for clearing the point on other drivetrain converted cars up. I realized shortly after I posted, but there has to be more 4wd chassis that are FWD right now.. that can be converted.

btw: GOOD NEWS! for drifting. Tsuchiya created his own drift league, hopefully this one stays true to grassroots drifting.
http://www.driftinjapan.com/2011/03/...r-and-pro.html

In rally there is plenty of car converted to awd to be good in rally, ford fiestas, hyundai tiburon and many many other cars, scion did the same about drift....

[yarik83]

Matador lets significantly dial back on profanity and find other means to express angry built up emotions. No reason to go down slippery slope.

[xclusive_brett]

so scion has a countdown for a big announcement/unveil at the new york auto show
www.sciondimension.com

[xantonin]

Originally Posted by xclusive_brett

so scion has a countdown for a big announcement/unveil at the new york auto show
www.sciondimension.com

That's a pretty nifty clock. I signed up for the update.

Preparing for the worst, hoping for the best.

(btw, lol @ countdown to 4:20)

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by blur

I'm not sure what your trying to say?
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011...011-scion.aspx
Thats what I'm referring to.

That's exactly the same people I in the video, Papadakis Racing is the same people who built Tanner Foust tC. Perhaps the video might have confused you, because they kept showing Tanner's tC. However, his tC is not a 2011. The 2011 one is what they are working on, which Tanner will not be driving as he is pursuing new driving aspects of his career as mentioned, thus Aasbo was chosen to replace him to pilot the 2011 tC.

Originally Posted by blur

And since every answer I have to your points is similar, I'll group it . . . you call it being different, but how many Tcs are currently in (big) motorsports . . . ?

Let's see,

Tanner Foust/Fred Aasbo - RockStar Scion tC - Formula D
Ken Gushi - Scion Racing Scion tC - Formula D
Dan Gardner - Jackson Dawson Racing - WERC Endurance Race
Sam Stout - Jackson Dawson Racing - WERC Endurance Race
Gary Sheen - Marshal Pruett Motorsports - SCCA/NASA Endurance Racing
Chris Rado - World Racing - FWD Unlimited Time Attack
Chris Rado - World Racing - AWD Unlimited Time Attack
Ross Miller - PTuning - FWD Modified Time Attack

These are the ones I can think off the top of my head. Everyone listed are either Two time champs back to back, or podium finishers. Aside from the drifting tC's, all the others listed are Champions in their class.

That list does not include the privateers such as myself or the Pro Drag racing cars that adorn the Scion badge (as the pro drag cars don't run the 2az).

That list is just the popular ones. I know a couple of other privateers who have placed podium finishes in Redline Time Attack. I placed 4th myself under N/A power and 6th overall for the season. How many Scion's must there be in order for you to deem worthy?

Originally Posted by blur

And nearly all of them are drivetrain converted.

Let me guess, they all have V8's in them to make them fast too right? Come on dude, don't be a noob on this. Only the drifters are RWD converted bro. I'll respect you as long as you don't make absurd assumptions as you just did.

Originally Posted by blur

Point is, its just unnecessary, they're not being different(I see a scion every time I watch anything), it's not preference and your completely changing what the car was intended to do. Theres barely any benefit over the cost. Its completely useless . . . unless someones paying you to do it. And thats why its fake.

So, it's fake for people to win championships? Ok buddy...I guess when they built a Miata it was specifically made to be a Time Attack/Drifter....not likely. People just saw the potential and now they have their own class (Spec Miata).

Originally Posted by blur

In a perfect world, FD wouldnt be about tube chassis purpose built drift cars with drivetrain swaps, engine swaps etc. These cars barely resemble their counterparts. Scions not the only one to do it, but it is the most obvious one... I mean, I dont think a guy just said, "hey, lets take a scion shell, and put a nascar v8 and drift it; for fun". No, its for $$ from sponsors. And that upsets me.

FD aint the only sanctioned Drifting organization. Do you even compete in any motorsports? Hard to be a critique about something when you aren't even apart of it. Support you local drift events if you want to make a statement. I was pissed when RTA moved all their events to the West Coast. Instead of just voicing my opinion on the forums, I looked forward to joining NASA/SCCA Time Trials.

Originally Posted by blur

Preference can only go so far. Calling using Tc for preference is blasphemy.

Really? Wow...ok. I explained to you Pro Drivers go where the $'s are. For enthusiast like myself....there is no $ driving behind the machine I CHOSE to build. It's blasphemy for you to tell me what my own driving motivation is.