2013 Honda Civic Si Sedan vs 2013 Subaru BRZ

[DylanFRS]

I don't even get how these cars get compared. People would never compare an MX-5 to a Civic Si.

And I can't believe the use of "better" in this thread. If you are looking for a pure driving experience in a perfectly balanced car where the priority is sportiness above all else, there is no doubt that the BRZ/FR-S is the better car. If you are looking for something with a lot of features, comfortable, very reliable, bigger, quieter, more practical in every sense with a bit of a performance twist added at the end, it is pretty hard to argue that the Civic Si isn't the "better" car. Not to mention, I would love to see the difference in value after 150k miles between the two cars.

For ME, the FR-S is the better car. That is why I didn't buy a Civic Si. But I am willing to acknowledge that it is the better choice for ME, and maybe that's not true for everyone.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by Apoc

The SI engine is 2.4 liters and shouldn't be providing equivalent hp to the FA20 it should be making 30-40 more hp stock. Also the big difference between oversteer and understeer is that understeer is much less desirable and can't be counter steered to keep you on your track. Oversteer will crush understeer all day long.

Both of your statements are kind of ridiculous.

The 2.4L in the Civic Si creates 20 more ft-lbs of torque leading to a more useable power-band. Honda has been making close 200hp out of 1.8L for almost 2 decades. If they wanted to make 200hp out of a 2.0L, there is no doubt that they could.

Also, I don't know how versed you are in actually driving at or past the limit, but oversteer is fast/better than understeer is not really true. Oversteer is definitely more fun, no one can argue that. But there is a reason that the BRZ tests faster around a track than the FR-S.

[Sellout]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

IMHO looks better and is more "exclusive."

I see 10 BRZs a day. I see 5 Civic SIs a week. The 86 is a lot of things. Exclusive is simply not one of them.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

Both of your statements are kind of ridiculous.

The 2.4L in the Civic Si creates 20 more ft-lbs of torque leading to a more useable power-band. Honda has been making close 200hp out of 1.8L for almost 2 decades. If they wanted to make 200hp out of a 2.0L, there is no doubt that they could.

Also, I don't know how versed you are in actually driving at or past the limit, but oversteer is fast/better than understeer is not really true. Oversteer is definitely more fun, no one can argue that. But there is a reason that the BRZ tests faster around a track than the FR-S.

My statement is intended to be ridiculous, it's just my way of trying to fit in with this crushing of the FR-S/BRZ all day everyday with theoretical hp numbers and massive hard cornering

[mwjcyber]

Originally Posted by Sellout

I can't believe this thread is still going.



I see 10 BRZs a day. I see 5 Civic SIs a week. The 86 is a lot of things. Exclusive is simply not one of them.

I see a million civics everyday, and the SI looks the same. Have fun with a compact family sedan, I'd rather drive an affordable, fun, rwd, sports-couple.

[jeffchap]

Same here. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Civic around here. I seldom see another 86. I think I've seen maybe 6 of them in total in the past 8 months since I got mine.

[Darkrune]

Originally Posted by MY13FRS

The Civic SI is a great car and probably get better MPG than the FRS.

The FRS is a wannabe S2000 but probably get better SPG (Smiles Per Gallon) than the Civic.

The BRZ/FRS is actually a wanna be proche/alfa romeo. Everything about the cars scream Euro trim and performance. Think outside the box, and we are comparing apples and oranges. Look at the Euro market and you will see what I am talking about. I love German cars, so when I saw this my heart fluttered with Japanese engineering with European styling take offs.

[Darkrune]

Originally Posted by Sellout

I can't believe this thread is still going.



I see 10 BRZs a day. I see 5 Civic SIs a week. The 86 is a lot of things. Exclusive is simply not one of them.

You also live in San Diego, where people with money buy the new fun stuff. Everywhere else in the country, our cars are pretty lean.

[BRZ21]

Originally Posted by Sellout

I can't believe this thread is still going.



I see 10 BRZs a day. I see 5 Civic SIs a week. The 86 is a lot of things. Exclusive is simply not one of them.

I can totally believe this thread is still going, comparing two cars with similar power and price...

I see 10 si's a day. I see 1 86 a month. the 86 is a lot of things and exclusivity is one of them (apparently depending on where you live)

[Sellout]

If you say so... I doubt Honda has even sold as many civic SIs as Toyota and Subaru have sold these cars.

They sell 200k civics a year. Maybe 10% of them are SIs.

I live in an apartment complex where there is ONE civic SI and 3 86s including mine.

People in San Diego who have money also have money for new civics, coincidentally.

[Celica00]

Originally Posted by Sellout

If you say so... I doubt Honda has even sold as many civic SIs as Toyota and Subaru have sold these cars.

They sell 200k civics a year. Maybe 10% of them are SIs.

I live in an apartment complex where there is ONE civic SI and 3 86s including mine.

People in San Diego who have money also have money for new civics, coincidentally.

in my area people w/ that money buy WRXs or mustangs so seeing an SI or an FRS is a rarity. probably cause of the snow factor. (then why so many stangs? idk)

[mwjcyber]

Originally Posted by Sellout

If you say so... I doubt Honda has even sold as many civic SIs as Toyota and Subaru have sold these cars.

They sell 200k civics a year. Maybe 10% of them are SIs.

I live in an apartment complex where there is ONE civic SI and 3 86s including mine.

People in San Diego who have money also have money for new civics, coincidentally.

Just like your opinion, your numbers are off.

Try 336,180. That's the number of Civics sold in the US for 2013.

Meanwhile, 8,587 Subaru BRZ's were sold in 2013.

Maybe in rice world San Diego SI's are hip, but in the rest of the country they are just another Civic, a joyless FWD econ o-box family sedan. BTW, I was born and raised in San Diego, so I'm very familiar with its rice scene.

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by mwjcyber

Just like your opinion, your numbers are off.

Try 336,180. That's the number of Civics sold in the US for 2013.

Meanwhile, 8,587 Subaru BRZ's were sold in 2013.

Maybe in rice world San Diego SI's are hip, but in the rest of the country they are just another Civic, a joyless FWD econ o-box family sedan. BTW, I was born and raised in San Diego, so I'm very familiar with its rice scene.

My opinion on what? There were 30k 86s in the us by the end of the 2013 year. The SI typically accounts for ~10% of civic sales. That's roughly 30k 86s and 30k SIs.

Oh I see what the problem is. I'm talking about all 86s vs the civic SI (sporty vs sporty) and you're talking bout all civics vs the BRZ (econobox vs sporty with a side of low sales numbers).

One might say that both of our opinions are "off" as you put it.

[mwjcyber]

@Sellout
That's fair, we can agree to disagree.

To me a Civic SI is just another Civic with some factory upgrades. Any car maker can add suspension and a bigger engine to their family sedan and call it a sports car. I'd rather buy a FT86 designed for performance and upgrade it myself. That's why I didn't buy a Mustang, because I didn't want to be cruising a GT just to look over at a stop light and see grandma driving the stripped down base model V6.

The FT86 is not a high production model, like Civics, Accords, Camrys, Mustangs and all the other "one size fit's all" models car makers are churning out.