F/I Blowing motors facts

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by xkalelx

Words have meaning.



Your propagation of misinformation is astounding and cancerous. There are at least 10 people here beating their heads against the wall in disagreement with your statements. I would take that as a sign that you missed something.

I'm going to start slow with you. Your first post was awful you didn't even have a clue what you were talking about. How can you say that a 300hp fa N/A that exist in 2013 ran on a dyno with a stock bottom end be the one that's not even put together yet.


Then you obviously don't know the definition of forced didn't educate yourself and made a total fool out of yourself by saying NOS is not F/I
So Einstein explain to all of us why the NHRA and several other racing sanctions list it as F/I


Could it be this:


forced

(fɔːst)
adj1. done because of force; compulsory: forced labour.
2. false or unnatural: a forced smile.
3. due to an emergency or necessity: a forced landing.
4. (General Physics) physics caused by an external agency: a forced vibration; a forced draught.

forcedly adv ˈforcedness n




combined with the fact you increase cylinder o2 content from 21 to 33 percent. You should go by a book instead making embarrassing post




troll exit stage left and take your friends with you

[xkalelx]

bell-end

Noun
(plural bell-ends)

(UK, vulgar) The glans penis.
(UK, offensive, vulgar) A stupid or contemptible person
Origin
bell +‎ end

The question wasnt that nitrous made power LIKE forced induction, it was that you consider nitrous "forced induction". Which it is not.

I wasnt stating that Chris' NA build was the motor from 2013. I thought that was obvious. Just pointing out an example that it is absolutely feasible.

/rant

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by xkalelx

bell-end

Noun
(plural bell-ends)

(UK, vulgar) The glans penis.
(UK, offensive, vulgar) A stupid or contemptible person
Origin
bell +‎ end

The question wasnt that nitrous made power LIKE forced induction, it was that you consider nitrous "forced induction". Which it is not.

I wasnt stating that Chris' NA build was the motor from 2013. I thought that was obvious. Just pointing out an example that it is absolutely feasible.

/rant

Chris has stroked his to a 2.3 l so it does not apply. I do agree with you that its amazing and hope he makes over 300hp I would love that but it was stated just like I said 2.0 stock bottom end and that's it. It's total bs it never happened another person did the math to show why its not feasible.


The nitrous came up when the same person stated it was N/A no its not, Due to the physics involved by changing the o2 content of the cylinder charge. You can't increase o2 content any other way other than F/I.

[xkalelx]

Straight from Wiki: Forced induction is the process of delivering compressed air to the intake of an internal combustion engine. A forced induction engine uses a gas compressor to increase the pressure, temperature and density of the air. An engine without forced inductionREAD:COMPRESSED AIR is considered a naturally aspirated engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_induction

You posting the definition of the word "forced" is completely out of context for this discussion.

Lets look at a single cylinder with the piston in BDC. You have .500 liters of cylinder displacement. Lets say we have a nice even 20% oxygen content from the atmosphere. If you add nitrous, you see an increase in oxygen to say 33%. Your cylinder volume is still .500 liters. The volume didnt increase, just the oxygen content did. If 50% of your cylinder volume is now your nitrous mixture, that means you had to displace 50% of that volume of atmospheric air that normally would have been there. You arent ADDING volume, just substituting volume with different constituents. You cant increase the internal volume beyond your .500 liter displacement WITHOUT compressing the intake air first.

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by xkalelx

Straight from Wiki: Forced induction is the process of delivering compressed air to the intake of an internal combustion engine. A forced induction engine uses a gas compressor to increase the pressure, temperature and density of the air. An engine without forced inductionREAD:COMPRESSED AIR is considered a naturally aspirated engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_induction

You posting the definition of the word "forced" is completely out of context for this discussion.

Lets look at a single cylinder with the piston in BDC. You have .500 liters of cylinder displacement. Lets say we have a nice even 20% oxygen content from the atmosphere. If you add nitrous, you see an increase in oxygen to say 33%. Your cylinder volume is still .500 liters. The volume didnt increase, just the oxygen content did. If 50% of your cylinder volume is now your nitrous mixture, that means you had to displace 50% of that volume of atmospheric air that normally would have been there. You arent ADDING volume, just substituting volume with different constituents. You cant increase the internal volume beyond your .500 liter displacement WITHOUT compressing the intake air first.

I see where your coming from and its close but theres more to it than this,




Example if I had a gallon jug of lets say sugar and a gallon jug of water there is more water than sugar in that jug. its still a gallon container but the water is denser. So if you are putting more than a normal amount on the standard of N/A intake stroke because the charge is denser it is considered F/I because it still has more o2 than a normal N/A intake stroke


Edit : I should add that o2 is the main focus not the mechanism of how it got there. o2 is what creates the bang so it's what's focused on. you adjust power levels by jet changes right, but that doesn't change the volume that enters the cylinder only the density of what's going in


edit again sorry.... another example lets count the intake o2


N/A lets say the cylinder holds 500 o2 molecules (hypothetically for math purpose)
your turbo or S/C at 20 psi pushes 1000 molecules in the cylinder
and you hit a 150 shot of nos and that puts 1000 molecules in the cylinder


the nos made the same o2 as 20 psi on the turbo and S/C
by a chemical process. that's why the F/I mechanism is not what's important

[FRS Justin]

Forced induction is the process of delivering compressed air to the intake of an internal combustion engine.


Agreed


A forced induction engine uses a gas compressor to increase the pressure, temperature and density of the air.


The gas compressor is the turbo S/C or NOS they all do the same thing by increasing o2 limits in the same volume


An engine without forced induction is considered a naturally aspirated engine. Agreed

[johan]

The SCTA classifies Nitrous as a Fuel and whether an engine is NA or not is qualified by whether it has a blower/turbo on it. Their classes run unblown on gas, blown on gas, unblown on fuel, or blown on fuel. I would love to see you go down to the salt flats and explain to the fastest people on the planet, how they've got it all wrong.

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by johan

The SCTA classifies Nitrous as a Fuel and whether an engine is NA or not is qualified by whether it has a blower/turbo on it. Their classes run unblown on gas, blown on gas, unblown on fuel, or blown on fuel. I would love to see you go down to the salt flats and explain to the fastest people on the planet, how they've got it all wrong.

Well doesn't this just add a whole new chapter... I would love to why they call it a fuel if they can't run on it by itself. Why don't run down there and find out Just because they have classes setup like that doesn't change how it works did you ever consider fuel as in methanol I think your one that has it all wrong JMO

[FRS Justin]

I'm done

[jvincent]

More accurately, NOS is fuel additive or a combustion enhancer.

[JDsThatGuy]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Hey everyone I just want to put a few facts out there for you new F/I guys who are not really tech savvy on this platform or to the people that are considering F/I. I don't mean to offend anyone but I am sure I will because someone always knows more or has their own opinions.


Here it goes, THE NUMBER 1 REASON the fa20 blows up under F/I is THE RODS SUCK they are nothing more than TIME BOMBS under the STRESSES that F/I PUTS OUT!!!!!!!!! PERIOD the END!!!!! Will the rods hold up to 8000 to 8500RPM N/A sure they will no problem oil will be the issue then at that RPM if it stays at that rpm for while. So to drive this point home their is no real way for anyone to claim a certain psi is safe. NO WAY!!!!! A gt45 at 18 psi and a GT28 at 18 psi are completely different. And the stress that goes with the bigger turbo are harder on a stock engine.. Sure you have companies out there telling you its all good no worries go for it but they sell products its there job to sell. I don't know of any company that will replace your engine if it pops and that should tell you something... I personally know guys pushing 500 whp on stock motors for close to 2 yrs with no problems. I also have friends that popped around 325 to 350 hp.. Its a roll of the dice.....
Which leads me to the next point. Please please please for the love of whatever you love, stop blaming the tunes....If a rod went its most likely not the tune if you have a huge hole in your piston it could be the tune but it could also be mechanical. Faulty fueling like a bad pump bad injectors. Please find the source before placing blame it's the right thing to do. Their are some really great people on this forum that have years of experience with this craft and have tremendous knowledge about this platform that are more than willing to help you. Most of them for free... Just ask..... So is it safe to boost a stock engine well that depends on what you call safe. Can it be done at a low psi and live for awhile? sure it can but don't' expect it to go 200k and not have a problem.... My thought are this if I bought a new frs/brz the first thing I would do is boost it to 300hp for everyday driving. That's my personal feeling of remotely safe and a risk I would take to have a car that feels amazing to drive... Anything above 300hp I would replace the rods and pistons. Just be aware that the 6k you invest in your boosted fa20 and what the truth is behind F/I
One more quick thing don't get caught up in the numbers game, 30psi or 650hp. Do what feels good to you and stop, numbers are for bragging smiles are where its at. If you get a big cheesy grin at 300hp that's all you need and your car will last a lot longer.. Trust me 640 hp on the street isn't much fun so I just dial my boost down and cruise along. I only run wastegate springs set at 5 psi on the street that's all I need. I hope this helps some of you new F/I guys. Peace and let the flaming begin lol

Still waiting for facts, please share them once posted.

[Andew727]

you people...

[xkalelx]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

Example if I had a gallon jug of lets say sugar and a gallon jug of water there is more water than sugar in that jug. its still a gallon container but the water is denser. So if you are putting more than a normal amount on the standard of N/A intake stroke because the charge is denser it is considered F/I because it still has more o2 than a normal N/A intake stroke


Edit : I should add that o2 is the main focus not the mechanism of how it got there. o2 is what creates the bang so it's what's focused on. you adjust power levels by jet changes right, but that doesn't change the volume that enters the cylinder only the density of what's going in

Haha, I am NEVER letting you near my car with a gallon jug of sugar.

So cars at sea level are forced induction and cars in Denver are NA. The cars have to aspirate harder where there's less oxygen right? It's all about the oxygen content right?

[Rapiddan45]

Pretty sure my iq dropped a couple points after reading just this page from this thread.... I feel like everyone is arguing with a brick wall, you can't educate some people. Also NOS is a brand not an elemental compound.