FR-S vs S2000

[vang]

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

Hmm, is it bad if probably an S2k or a kouki s14 are my second alternatives from an FRS/BRZ?

Not at all, especially not the S2K. As others have mentioned, you can find a nice, barely "broken in" AP1 for $10-15K. A superior car for less money. Win-win, unless you need back seats and want a brand new car...which is what I'm debating.

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

...I just hate the fact insurance on S2k are killer.

Actually, you'd be surprised to find how cheap it is to insure an S2000. I was worried about this, too, so when I decided to get a car with a "sport" engine, I initially looked at the RSX Type S and Celica GT-S. I also looked at Evos and STi, but initial purchase price would be out of my targeted budget of $15K. I was surprised to find that it is cheaper to insure the S2000 than any of the other cars mentioned above by a good margin (the Evo being the most expensive by a very large margin).

I'm 25, and pay approx $90/mo on my S2000 for full coverage, at the best coverage. Monthly payments went up $3/mo for coverage on my hardtop.

YMMV, but it never hurts to call your insurance company for an accurate estimate. Hope that helps!

[goldenfri]

Originally Posted by vang

Not at all, especially not the S2K. As others have mentioned, you can find a nice, barely "broken in" AP1 for $10-15K. A superior car for less money. Win-win, unless you need back seats and want a brand new car...which is what I'm debating.



Actually, you'd be surprised to find how cheap it is to insure an S2000. I was worried about this, too, so when I decided to get a car with a "sport" engine, I initially looked at the RSX Type S and Celica GT-S. I also looked at Evos and STi, but initial purchase price would be out of my targeted budget of $15K. I was surprised to find that it is cheaper to insure the S2000 than any of the other cars mentioned above by a good margin (the Evo being the most expensive by a very large margin).

I'm 25, and pay approx $90/mo on my S2000 for full coverage, at the best coverage. Monthly payments went up $3/mo for coverage on my hardtop.

YMMV, but it never hurts to call your insurance company for an accurate estimate. Hope that helps!

Why would you need separate coverage on your hardtop, its part of the car, and an OEM option.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by goldenfri

Why would you need separate coverage on your hardtop, its part of the car, and an OEM option.

For the exact same reason you need separate coverage on wheels. It's part of the car, and possibly an OEM option.

As long as you document things, most insurance companies will offer you coverage. Most insurance also cover the first X amount of dollars in options/aftermarket for free.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by vang

Not at all, especially not the S2K. As others have mentioned, you can find a nice, barely "broken in" AP1 for $10-15K. A superior car for less money. Win-win, unless you need back seats and want a brand new car...which is what I'm debating.



Actually, you'd be surprised to find how cheap it is to insure an S2000. I was worried about this, too, so when I decided to get a car with a "sport" engine, I initially looked at the RSX Type S and Celica GT-S. I also looked at Evos and STi, but initial purchase price would be out of my targeted budget of $15K. I was surprised to find that it is cheaper to insure the S2000 than any of the other cars mentioned above by a good margin (the Evo being the most expensive by a very large margin).

I'm 25, and pay approx $90/mo on my S2000 for full coverage, at the best coverage. Monthly payments went up $3/mo for coverage on my hardtop.

YMMV, but it never hurts to call your insurance company for an accurate estimate. Hope that helps!

Thanks for your input but I'm under 25 and my friend, who owns an S2000, I think pays almost 3000 for insurance every 6 months. I can't handle that and college lol.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by AeroWRX

The people on Nasioc pretty much unanimously hate this car. I think deep in their hearts they all want a 2 door delete on their WRX-STi. Having 4 door is trivial compared to not having awd and turbo...which obviously is not what this car is about.

Hatred of the BRZ at NASIOC is common, but it's not unanimous. There are many of us there who extol the virtues of a lightweight, neutral RWD car (in fact, several of us old-school NASIOC members moved on to an MX5).

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

Thanks for your input but I'm under 25 and my friend, who owns an S2000, I think pays almost 3000 for insurance every 6 months. I can't handle that and college lol.

How's your driving record?

I've never paid more than 1700/year for coverage on a s2k, even when I was under 25. I always have the maximum coverage the carrier has to offer, which is 100/300 at the moment.

It may be worth shopping around, but I do recommend sticking to the premium carriers.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by Mike

How's your driving record?

I've never paid more than 1700/year for coverage on a s2k, even when I was under 25. I always have the maximum coverage the carrier has to offer, which is 100/300 at the moment.

It may be worth shopping around, but I do recommend sticking to the premium carriers.

Well mine is clean so far (thank goodness) but my friend's, well, not so much. He has a lot of speeding tickets, and I think other infractions lol.

I caould put it under my parents name since they've been like 30 years with the insurance company, and never been at fault in an accident. Amazing I know.

[duffman13]

Originally Posted by catharsis

Please tell me how in the world you got 260 whp from bolt ons and tune with a k20, in the real world a k20 with bolt ons and tune will realistically be more around 200whp. To hit 260 you would need to bore the motor out to 2.2 liters, have some aggressive cams, bolt ons, and a tune. Honestly motors like the k20 are some of the worst for bolt ons cause you see virtually no gains for the money put in. The fr-s won't be any different. It's just a small 2 liter NA motor.

lol wut?

I know I'm bringing this back from the dead, but K20s are actually some of the best motors for bolt-on power.

on a K20A2, you throw a CAI ($250) reflash ($300), Race Header ($400) and exhaust ($400) and you just went from 167whp to 200 whp.

I'd like to know another NA car, especially with a motor that size, that can see over 30whp NA from $1350. Generally I hear that on a NA motor you end up spending $100/hp, so $45/hp is a bargain.

[Honesty]

I think he was confusing the K20 for the F20.

[catharsis]

Originally Posted by duffman13

lol wut?

I know I'm bringing this back from the dead, but K20s are actually some of the best motors for bolt-on power.

on a K20A2, you throw a CAI ($250) reflash ($300), Race Header ($400) and exhaust ($400) and you just went from 167whp to 200 whp.

I'd like to know another NA car, especially with a motor that size, that can see over 30whp NA from $1350. Generally I hear that on a NA motor you end up spending $100/hp, so $45/hp is a bargain.

Damn this forum for not having multi quote.

Anyways. a CAI for 250. I'll give you that. Reflash? Who does that anymore? Everyone uses kpro/flashpro. A good race header is actually more like 800, a good exhaust 500. You went from 180whp to 200whp. That's only a 20hp bump for over 1500 in parts. This is from my experience with the k20z3 not just personal but observing other peoples results on the forums. Nearly any other performance car you buy will give better results. GTI you get a nearly 50whp bump with just a tune. 30whp in a ms3 with just a CAI. I mean really there are almost ZERO na performance motors this size, and any small NA motor is gonna make terrible gains with bolt ons. It's just a fact. Either you have a big v8 like the 5.0 that'll make 30whp just from a new exhaust, or you have a 4 cylinder turbo that'll make that with a tune. But a 4 cylinder NA motor? They'll always make garbage gains for the money you put in. I'm not so much attacking the k20 itself. It's just small NA motors in general won't make big power from bolt ons.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by catharsis

Damn this forum for not having multi quote.

It does

[Honesty]

Originally Posted by catharsis

Damn this forum for not having multi quote.

Anyways. a CAI for 250. I'll give you that. Reflash? Who does that anymore? Everyone uses kpro/flashpro. A good race header is actually more like 800, a good exhaust 500. You went from 180whp to 200whp. That's only a 20hp bump for over 1500 in parts. This is from my experience with the k20z3 not just personal but observing other peoples results on the forums. Nearly any other performance car you buy will give better results. GTI you get a nearly 50whp bump with just a tune. 30whp in a ms3 with just a CAI. I mean really there are almost ZERO na performance motors this size, and any small NA motor is gonna make terrible gains with bolt ons. It's just a fact. Either you have a big v8 like the 5.0 that'll make 30whp just from a new exhaust, or you have a 4 cylinder turbo that'll make that with a tune. But a 4 cylinder NA motor? They'll always make garbage gains for the money you put in. I'm not so much attacking the k20 itself. It's just small NA motors in general won't make big power from bolt ons.

A while back Kpro was 1.1k and reflash was only 600.

I had a CAI, BCRH, and reflash, and made 198 at the wheels. The WHP gain is nice, but the redline being 8600 after the reflash was nicer, as was the added mid-range. Also I ran the stock exhaust (not a fan of the ricey sound).

Intake, header, exhaust, and an actual tune on k-pro often leaves people with 225 whp and although the peak torque output doesn't change by too much, it's still available throughout more of the midrange. Still, +40 whp from breather mods and a tune ain't bad at all.

Those aren't garbage gains. Those are excellent gains for a n/a I4. So you're right, they're not bad gains for a small 4-cylinder engine, but compared to a GTR or Evo or STi or Z06, they're bad.

On my S52, or heck, even on an S54, you won't see those kinds of gains on natural aspiration, nor with that small amount invested. Sure on an LSx you'll see gains from breather mods, and especially on a turbo engine, but the K20 is an extremely high-flowing engine that can handle a ton of horsepower completely stock. It's an impressive engine that makes impressive gains for what it is.

[goldenfri]

Originally Posted by Mike

For the exact same reason you need separate coverage on wheels. It's part of the car, and possibly an OEM option.

As long as you document things, most insurance companies will offer you coverage. Most insurance also cover the first X amount of dollars in options/aftermarket for free.

I have an S2000 with a hardtop and I don't have to pay extra to cover the hardtop because its not aftermarket, its OEM. All my other mods though I wouldn't expect to be covered.

[goldenfri]

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

Thanks for your input but I'm under 25 and my friend, who owns an S2000, I think pays almost 3000 for insurance every 6 months. I can't handle that and college lol.

your friend must have a terrible driving record or picked the wrong insurer.