Toyota FT-86 @ VLN : report / pictures

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Dark

Ah saw.
He can also go with FWD like Mazda Speed 3 and VW GTI.

GTI isn't anywhere near 300hp (200hp for MS3 money), MS3 is closer and cheapish, just a little more money than the FRS will likely sell for, unless you want the tech package then it's a 27k car.

You can run a GTI up to 30K with options :o Golf R would be the better choice at that price, but still not 300hp :P

Although the MS3 will likely be my backup choice if I don't like the FRS.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Not for 20-22k new.

Maybe a 2.0T for 22k-23k with 210hp buuuutt, doesn't look as nice and is much heavier... awesome right lol

[MannyO]

Originally Posted by Tyandriel

wawaaah, they had a HD cam inside! Pic12! plz internetz i want the vidz!

We all want the In-Car video but I doubt we'll ever see it. Here's some footage from inside an Opel Astra. At 0:44 you see the FT-86 on the right.

[u2b]a_6td5qDpHc[/u2b]

[blur]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

350z don't have a sunroof either and it still can shed 300lbs I sure. I'm not sure on the rules for the SP3 class, but a lot of classes especially in racing, don't allow glass in the doors. Wonder if there is glass in that FT-86's door panels.

So, what have I shed.

Weight department
-Carbon hood
-Carbon Fenders
-remove factory sound dead
-remove carpet
-remove interior side panels from the doors back into the hatch
-remove rear seats + metal brackets/screws
-remove front seats + metal brackets/screws (replaced with 19lb Corbeau's)
-remove seat belts + metal brackets/screws (these can weigh 5lbs a piece by themselves. Don't sound like a lot but it adds up quick).

That's it. Still need to remove glass and replace hatch.

Surely that doesn't add up to 350 lbs . . . it can't? I'd love to believe you put I just don't see it happening.

Anyway, any idea if removing the sun roof alters structural ridgity? Would it be better just to shop around for a non-sunroof model? I'm at those crossroads for my car

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by MannyO

We all want the In-Car video but I doubt we'll ever see it. Here's some footage from inside an Opel Astra. At 0:44 you see the FT-86 on the right.

[u2b]a_6td5qDpHc[/u2b]

Man, you have good eyes!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by blur

Anyway, any idea if removing the sun roof alters structural ridgity? Would it be better just to shop around for a non-sunroof model? I'm at those crossroads for my car

First, removing the sunroof: I doubt it reduces rigidity vs leaving it there (which no racing organization that I can think of allows that anyways). The sunroof frame does mount to the roof structure, so once it's removed you lose some bracing but you can some back welding (or screwing/riveting) a panel back over the opening.

Second, if you have the choice, a non sunroof car is always the better choice, less work, more headroom since you don't need the bracing/mounting areas for the sunroof motors and such, plus it's a solid piece of sheetmetal instead of having a hole in it.

I thought you already had a car built though? I doubt it'd be worth the effort to move everything over so if you really wanted to eliminate the sunroof roof panel then cut it and weld in a non sunroof panel.

[SUB-FT86]

I see where ScionFRS is coming from and I kind of agree with him only because over the years sports cars started to perform better than there predecessors. The only sports vehicles that have shown little improvements generally comes from Japan. Dave your 97 type R is quicker in stock form than a 2011 civic Si. That's 14 years for fucks sake!!! Compare the handling and performance of lets say a Mustang GT from 97 to now. It's a huge difference. My only gripe that I have is that I wish the FT came with .5 more liters since it seems like 2 liters is played out. It was good in the 90's but this is 2011. Progress!!!

[serialk11r]

A possibility is that the first few years will have a 2L engine while they sort out Valvematic...then they can increase displacement a bit without losing fuel economy. I hope this is what's going on :O

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I see where ScionFRS is coming from and I kind of agree with him only because over the years sports cars started to perform better than there predecessors. The only sports vehicles that have shown little improvements generally comes from Japan. Dave your 97 type R is quicker in stock form than a 2011 civic Si. That's 14 years for fucks sake!!! Compare the handling and performance of lets say a Mustang GT from 97 to now. It's a huge difference. My only gripe that I have is that I wish the FT came with .5 more liters since it seems like 2 liters is played out. It was good in the 90's but this is 2011. Progress!!!

The ITR was/is a special car though. Even if the 11 Si was faster I'd still take the ITR :P We had Honda's head of PR (who also owned an ITR) out to speak at ITR Expo 2010 and he made it quite clear that a car like the ITR will never happen again, at least not in the near future due to CAFE, safety, etc requirements. It's a valid point. It's literally hard to make a car that's lightweight these days. By light I mean 25XXlbs like the ITR. The average buyer demands all sorts of luxuries and features that all add weight while requiring high fuel efficiency, quality materials and low prices.

Personally I see this car as a RWD ITR, and I'll be very excited if it meets that expectation. Similar power, similar weight, but RWD. I'd love for it to just do that.

I agree with your points, just not his arguement for reasons below.

He wants that 300HP for 20K though, in 1997 dollars that's what, 16-17k? What quick cars sold for that in 1997 (the ITR by comparison was 23k without AC, about 25k with it)? I just think his desires are unrealistic, yet he says that everyone else is giving us 300hp for 20k (that's the implication since he's using Toyota's 20k car as a basis of the comparison) and that's simply not true, with the exception of american muscle. What's the cheapest Japanese sports import with 300hp? Mazda has the MS3 that's 263 IIRC, for 24k base or so. Honda has.. nothing. Toyota has.. nothing. Mitsu has the EVO for 30+, Subaru has the STI for 30+.

So basically, he's smoking crack if he thinks everyone is giving us 300hp sporty cars for 20k :P

I agree that American cars have made marked improvements, but let's face it, American cars from the 90s HAD to make marked improvements. They sucked badly. Ford realized it and made smart choices and are making some good cars now, even if they are still dumbed down in the feedback department.

Lucky this isn't a domestic board or we'd be banned for this

[SUB-FT86]

If Honda was to make another integra I would love it if it came with RWD and the engine from the RDX(sport tuned) or a D/I version of the 2.4 Si's engine with weight under 3k lbs and good handling for around 25k base. Buy they will never do it and if they did they would want 40k for that.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

If Honda was to make another integra I would love it if it came with RWD and the engine from the RDX(sport tuned) or a D/I version of the 2.4 Si's engine with weight under 3k lbs and good handling for around 25k base. Buy they will never do it and if they did they would want 40k for that.

You can make one. There's a RWD Type-R out there that was built around here. They made AWD Integras in Japan so you combine some of that running gear and rear hub assemblies and some CRV parts IIRC, all OEM parts. There's also a mid engined RWD prelude H22 powered Type-R as well but it's too custom to easily find replacement parts for.

I'd love a RWD one for sure, but if I ever build one it'll be off a theft recovery car, not my clean title car :P

[chulooz]

I think if they eventually gave the car a high performance/low amenities model with around 300hp they could get away with selling them for about $30k? Would you agree?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by chulooz

I think if they eventually gave the car a high performance/low amenities model with around 300hp they could get away with selling them for about $30k? Would you agree?

I'd buy it assuming it was still a blast to drive in all situations (track, autox, daily driving, etc).

I was browsing the Golf R forum today (I was thinking about buying one if I didn't like the FRS) and was reading the pricing thread. People were complaining about the lack of features with it's mid 30s price so I'm sure you'd see similar with a 300hp, ~30K FRS.

[Slide]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I'd buy it assuming it was still a blast to drive in all situations (track, autox, daily driving, etc).

I was browsing the Golf R forum today (I was thinking about buying one if I didn't like the FRS) and was reading the pricing thread. People were complaining about the lack of features with it's mid 30s price so I'm sure you'd see similar with a 300hp, ~30K FRS.

I have been doing the same, if the waiting time wasn't so long on delevery in australia I think I would already have one.

Shame they are 65k drive away here with mild opt list.

so I will wait 9month(about when an ordered r would arrive) till this is out and conpare the two.