SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[chriskory]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

no man, I'm just gonna put a 25 pound weight on my dash and fucking go at it.


for arguments sake lets say it is secured.

It may be easier to just commandeer a passanger

[SeanRTR]

While I love these offseason discussions....Ryan, that shit is NOT going to be faster. Get used to driving the car loose, even if you have to blow a run to do it.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJZGisAXelw"]6 29 13 NWOR scca team challenge Scion Grogan run 1 drifting - YouTube[/ame]

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by chriskory

It may be easier to just commandeer a passanger

weight distribution is highly important here though.


a 180lb human in the seat is not the same as even 100lb spread along the floor.


this is why the Tesla Model S is such an amazing car, it's ridiculously heavy but highly capable because the vast majority of the weight is at ground level.

I just feel that Toyota got it wrong with the 53/47 split. I always enjoy driving my car more with junk in the trunk.

[Biggins]

Just learn to drive a loose car. If your car feels under control, you're going too slow.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by SeanRTR

While I love these offseason discussions....Ryan, that shit is NOT going to be faster. Get used to driving the car loose, even if you have to blow a run to do it.

in my experience observing the guys who like to run "loose", their
consistencies are extremely poor, and they're just as likely to finish high as they are to finish low


I'm just not that type of driver. I don't have quite the exposure that you do when it comes to performance driving. (A single road-race for you would put you years ahead in terms of development than a casual autocrosser, a full season of road racing is equivalent to a lifetime of autocross in terms of raw experience of "feeling" the car). I used to do a lot of time attack, but that has since gotten expensive and it's been a long time since I had a few hours to myself to just rip it around lap after lap.

I only have 5-6 runs in a single day in a single week to make my stand. I play on the streets when I can, I take advantage of rainy and snowy days, but it's not nearly enough.


So for those 5-6 runs I need my car to give me as much confidence as possible, Because blowing a run on drifting and then waiting for 40 minutes to try it again is a very inefficient learning model.

For next year I may start off with an HPDE day and hoon my last year's tires into oblivion, but still.


I just want to experiment

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Biggins

Just learn to drive a loose car. If your car feels under control, you're going too slow.

I do drive a loose car, I'm hot out of the gate and the car is always at it's limit. I just don't like having to drive it loose, and I personally believe the car could have been designed with more weight in the rear.


And I'm not slow. I did very well this year in a hard-paxed, nearly stock car. But thank you for assuming that I am.

[vroom4]

You a fighting a bad battle here man. Just soften up rear shocks, lower rear pressure, or go to a bigger front bar. It wont feel loose anymore. Adding weight is just silly.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by vroom4

You a fighting a bad battle here man. Just soften up rear shocks, lower rear pressure, or go to a bigger front bar. It wont feel loose anymore. Adding weight is just silly.

yes I could see, any time a discussion starts to deviate into the theoretical people get pissy.


anyway, I don't have adjustable shocks and currently only have one swaybar.


but neither have the same effect as weight distribution.




you know what is most frustrating? finding quality discussions on vehicle dynamics online. I research constantly trying to find intelligent discussion on radical approaches to experimenting with this stuff, but if it exists, it ain't public and 90% of it is re-hashed info, some of which is often flawed or implemented out of context.



A 911 Turbo is 40/60. A maclaren P1 is 40/60.

Why did Toyota choose 53/47?

Objectively speaking, when you drive the FRS with a heavy trunk or passengers in the rear, does it not feel more responsive?

why do i even bother engaging you people

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

A 911 Turbo is 40/60. A maclaren P1 is 40/60.

Why did Toyota choose 53/47?

You're comparing a 200hp, 2700lbs, $25k car to high powered, mid-engined (or even further!) supercars. Toyota "chose" 53/47 because engine.

Objectively speaking, when you drive the FRS with a heavy trunk or passengers in the rear, does it not feel more responsive?

No. It feels heavier and slower. Just like you'd expect. Or everyone else in the world would expect, apparently.

why do i even bother engaging you people

Good question. Rationalize all you want - adding 100lbs to your car will not make it faster in real life.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by qoncept

Good question. Rationalize all you want - adding 100lbs to your car will not make it faster in real life.

again I feel like I'm not getting the actual point across.




I'm not saying the car will be faster


I'm saying I feel more confident driving it, so it ends up going faster, even though it's "limit" is lowered.


although for arguments, sake, if I gave you a 70/30 split car of equal parameters are the FRS, you think you'll be equally fast? around the course?

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

yes I could see, any time a discussion starts to deviate into the theoretical people get pissy.


anyway, I don't have adjustable shocks and currently only have one swaybar.


but neither have the same effect as weight distribution.




you know what is most frustrating? finding quality discussions on vehicle dynamics online. I research constantly trying to find intelligent discussion on radical approaches to experimenting with this stuff, but if it exists, it ain't public and 90% of it is re-hashed info, some of which is often flawed or implemented out of context.



A 911 Turbo is 40/60. A maclaren P1 is 40/60.

Why did Toyota choose 53/47?

Objectively speaking, when you drive the FRS with a heavy trunk or passengers in the rear, does it not feel more responsive?

why do i even bother engaging you people

Engagement is fine but stating the weight distribution of two mid/rear engine supercars as evidence to back up your claim of adding ballast to increase performance is not an argument with ground to stand on. At least go with something comparable, like the Miata that has close to a 50/50 distribution. That is something that could be compared as evidence.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by qoncept

You're comparing a 200hp, 2700lbs, $25k car to high powered, mid-engined (or even further!) supercars. Toyota "chose" 53/47 because engine.

No, I'm comparing engineering.


Are you then suggesting that if the FRS cost more money to build then the engineers would have chosen a different weight distribution?

Originally Posted by qoncept

No. It feels heavier and slower. Just like you'd expect. Or everyone else in the world would expect, apparently.

again I get the feeling you're not really reading what I'm saying and just jumping at a pre-established conclusion.


Yes the car will be slower! In absolute terms. But what's also important is for the driver to drive the car at the cars limit.

If I feel like I'm driving at 95% of the car's 100% ability.. and then lower the car's ability by 4%, but now feel like I'm driving at 100%, I'm up 1%. Comprende?

Originally Posted by qoncept

Good question. Rationalize all you want - adding 100lbs to your car will not make it faster in real life.

For fucks sake *captain picard meme*, I never said the car will be faster.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

I'm saying I feel more confident driving it, so it ends up going faster, even though it's "limit" is lowered.

Exactly. Learn to drive a loose car.

Originally Posted by 7thgear

although for arguments, sake, if I gave you a 70/30 split car of equal parameters are the FRS, you think you'll be equally fast? around the course?

And you want to complain about going theoretical?




OK, I'll put Andy Hollis in his CRX and we will see what is faster. Apples to Oranges.




Go check out Corner-carvers.com since this isn't an intelligent, engaging enough conversation for you.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

Engagement is fine but stating the weight distribution of two mid/rear engine supercars as evidence to back up your claim of adding ballast to increase performance is not an argument with ground to stand on. At least go with something comparable, like the Miata that has close to a 50/50 distribution. That is something that could be compared as evidence.

once again, weight distribution is not weight/power ratio


I'm not saying adding ballast to increase performance, I am saying adding ballast to make me more one with the car




and all I'm really asking is if It's something that could even be allowed under the rules.


For instance, could I put my passenger in the rear seat and maybe even lay down


Plus there's always the rain events.