How common is torque dip?

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by paulca

So you think rev'ing your engine is the correct way to drive? Everywhere, all of the time?

I don't redline at every shift, but I also don't shift at 2.5k like you do all around town. Part of the beauty about this car is that you can rev it up without breaking too many laws. I don't see the point in owning this car if you spend the majority of time never going above 4k.

Originally Posted by paulca

Seriously, you guys telling me how to drive a manual is like a fucking yoga instructor trying to explain the delegate design pattern to a software engineer!

You can drive your car however you like. Just because you live in the UK though doesn't automatically make you a better driver than the Americans on this board. I'd be willing to bet that I have just as much experience with manual transmissions as you, if not more.


There is a reason this car redlines at 7.5k and I just think it's a little sad that you rarely shift the car over 3k. Take that as you will

[paulca]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

Not sure what you guys are talking about but to chime in (I'm in Canada if it makes a difference), I did my driving test in a manual car. Basically the only difference between that and an auto test was that the instructor asked me to downshift all the way into first at every stop. Everything else was the same. He said that's what the province required for people doing the test in a manual car. Just FYI in case anyone's curious.

Sounds like a VERY basic test from a mostly auto driving country that doesn't research or regulate manual cars very much because they are a niche market.

In the UK is "ok" to stop in any gear. It is recommended, and required on test day, that you demonstrate downshifting as you slow, but you can skip gears (block shift). Such as braking in 5th down to 20mph, then one downshift into 2nd.

Once stopped. If you will be waiting any longer than a 5 or 10 seconds, handbrake and neutral in that order.

Only when you need to resume should you put the car back into 1st and drop the handbrake after getting the bite point so you don't roll back.

You might actually get a minor fault for shifting back into 1st while moving as there is little to no point (most cars will do 4-5mph in 2nd without stalling) and it is a high risk cause of accidents (getting rear ended).

The same can be said for operating in 1st gear unnecessarily. 1st has a huge amount of engine braking so releasing the pedal could cause you to slow rapidly with no brake lights on. As you will most likely be in first around junctions where the person behind might be otherwise occupied checking traffic, you are running an unnecessary risk of getting rear ended.

Get out of 1st ASAP is the advice. Do not travel in 1st, 1st is just to get the car rolling, move straight to 2nd.

When I asked about situations where you just clutch down in 2nd rolling to a halt and the traffic moves off, should you stuff it into first and try and balance the clutch? The answer was no. Stop. Put it into 1st and proceed normally.

The only thing I would say is that the UK driving test is aimed at testing learners can follow an acedemic and practically research driving method and standard that demonstrates they can go out and learn the real world driving on their own without causing accidents or killing anyone.

The advanced driving test usually taught to and then by the emergency services drivers is similar but much more picky. All the picky bits are based on research and minimising unnecessary risks. ie. If a technique has a higher risk than another and provides no benefit, don't use it, use the safer one.

Of course, this is how your mum and dad would like you to drive and we all want to have a bit of fun once in a while, the most of the techniques scale up with higher revs etc.

My point is, driving around like you are in a rally or on a race track all the time is dumb, presents risks you don't need to take to yourself and others, wastes fuel, wears your car and makes you look like a ****.

[paulca]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I don't redline at every shift, but I also don't shift at 2.5k like you do all around town. Part of the beauty about this car is that you can rev it up without breaking too many laws. I don't see the point in owning this car if you spend the majority of time never going above 4k.

You can drive your car however you like. Just because you live in the UK though doesn't automatically make you a better driver than the Americans on this board. I'd be willing to bet that I have just as much experience with manual transmissions as you, if not more.

There is a reason this car redlines at 7.5k and I just think it's a little sad that you rarely shift the car over 3k. Take that as you will

When you need to. If you need (it can be a want) to get the torque/power provided by high rpms, then sure go for it.

If you don't need the rpms or the power from them then reving the car is just dumb.

If you drive around town here rev'ing the nuts of the car all the time you WILL get stopped and you WILL get done for driving aggressive or dangerously.

If you feel you need to drive at full throttle up to the speed limit, everywhere, all the time, then you drive like a hooligan and I hope I never have to drive in your town with you around.

If you are following a car driving "normally", do you still rev the car to 5k in 1st to get to 30mph when it takes the car in front 10 seconds to do it? That's f'ing stupid. I'd shift up through the gears so as the engine delivers the power/torque I need for the situation. No need for the torque of 1st to accelerate at the pace the granny (or large lorry) is accelerating in front.

Oh and as to my driving... I spent about 99% of my time today in the car below 3k rpm. However I also power slide from a stop in 1st on a 90* turning on ramp with the nannies off, very nearly bounced it off the limiter while sideways and fishtailed up the slippery wet road in 2nd to the speed limit. Then stuck it in 6th put the cruise control on and chilled.

[humfrz]

OK......OK ......I'll take my back .........


humfrz

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by paulca

When you need to. If you need (it can be a want) to get the torque/power provided by high rpms, then sure go for it.

That's basically my point in a nutshell. I want to rev my car because it is enjoyable to me.

Originally Posted by paulca

Oh and as to my driving... I spent about 99% of my time today in the car below 3k rpm. However I also power slide from a stop in 1st on a 90* turning on ramp with the nannies off, very nearly bounced it off the limiter while sideways and fishtailed up the slippery wet road in 2nd to the speed limit.

If you feel you need to turn off the nannies and powerslide on public roads, then you drive like a hooligan and I hope I never have to drive in your town with you around.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by paulca

Advice coming from a nation where 99% of people drive Autos and 1 in 4 think the Sun goes round the Earth...

The UK has done a massive amount of driving safety research for many decades.

To be allowed to drive a manual car in the UK (or at least to get a UK manual license) you need to do a test in a manual.

How many of you US guys have done a driving test in a manual car?

Seriously, you guys telling me how to drive a manual is like a fucking yoga instructor trying to explain the delegate design pattern to a software engineer!

Originally Posted by paulca

Sounds like a VERY basic test from a mostly auto driving country that doesn't research or regulate manual cars very much because they are a niche market.
.

No offense, but being required to take a manual transmission driving test, doesn't qualify YOU(yourself) as a better driver than someone who wasn't required to take this test.
You can make your own arguments for yourself. But you are biased---as is the person whom you're against.

As far as Country/Region vs Country- UK vs US or UK vs Canada, we may assume that overall, those who are tested are probably better, but how does anyone know?
You'd have to take a sample (20-30?, 100?) of people from UK who only drive manuals vs. the same sample size of people from the US who only drive manuals and do a test. But who really cares to do that? Likely nobody. And unless you're part of this test, your arguments in these above quotes are invalid.

[paulca]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

That's basically my point in a nutshell. I want to rev my car because it is enjoyable to me.





If you feel you need to turn off the nannies and powerslide on public roads, then you drive like a hooligan and I hope I never have to drive in your town with you around. :Bellyroll:

Touche.

Only I drive sensibly unless I see a safe opportunity for a quick blast of fun, then I return to driving sensibly.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by paulca

Touche.

Only I drive sensibly unless I see a safe opportunity for a quick blast of fun, then I return to driving sensibly.

I fail to see how me driving at 5k in 2nd gear on a windy road is less safe than me driving at 2.5k in 3rd gear.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by paulca

So you think rev'ing your engine is the correct way to drive? Everywhere, all of the time?

Advice coming from a nation where 99% of people drive Autos and 1 in 4 think the Sun goes round the Earth...

The UK has done a massive amount of driving safety research for many decades.

To be allowed to drive a manual car in the UK (or at least to get a UK manual license) you need to do a test in a manual.

How many of you US guys have done a driving test in a manual car?

Seriously, you guys telling me how to drive a manual is like a fucking yoga instructor trying to explain the delegate design pattern to a software engineer!

Easy, there partner, when I took my drivers test ...... a MT car was all that was available to me .....

Now, I ain't about to tell you how to drive a manual ....... but, since I was probably shifting gears before your father was born .......I most likely could .....


humfrz

[humfrz]

Where is @Tcoat ........ he's missing out on a lively debate .......



humfrz

[paulca]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

As far as Country/Region vs Country- UK vs US or UK vs Canada, we may assume that overall, those who are tested are probably better, but how does anyone know?

I understand your point, but if you took your sample of people and asked...

"Where did you learn to drive a manual car?"

100% of the UK will say from my family who all drive exclusively manuals and then from a driving instructor using scientifically tested, risk assessed methods and procedures developed over decades.

If you ask the same of the US and Canadian drivers the answer will never be that. I'm sure some people on here did no training at all, never got lessons in a manual, who family all drive autos and the only place they can learn how to drive a manual is from forums like this and YouTube.

No, you are right that doesn't mean that every UK driver is better then ever US driver as operating a manual vehicle, but it does mean it is highly likely that UK drivers will have better, formal, practical knowledge of driving a manual efficiently (both mechanically and in human factors) and safely.

[paulca]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I fail to see how me driving at 5k in 2nd gear on a windy road is less safe than me driving at 2.5k in 3rd gear.

Exactly my point. You don't.

EDIT: 5k in 2nd is about 45mph? So if I was having fun i'd be in 2nd with you. If I was cruising along I'd be in 6th.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I fail to see how me driving at 5k in 2nd gear on a windy road is less safe than me driving at 2.5k in 3rd gear.

Yeah... I didn't realize driving at a higher rpm automatically turns your car into some sort of death mobile.

[paulca]

Let's be clear(er).

1. If you need maximum acceleration, use higher rpms. If you don't, there is no need to use higher rpms so don't. Why? See 2.
2. Higher RPMs causes higher engine wear, wastes fuel, makes lots of noise, scare pedestrians, annoys the police and can make the car much less stable with throttle movements. All amount to risk that.. if you don't need the extra power is pointless to take.
3. If you fell you need the power all the time and use it all the time and thus feel you need to rev the nuts off the car constantly you have to be driving like a physco everywhere and I expect it's simply not safe to do so, no matter where you live these days. Unless you are in the back of nowhere or on a race track.