Video: HKS 86 drift car + first 86/FR-S/BRZ dyno = 170 rwhp!!!

[Hanzo]

Hp/TQ is all relative. When I first got my Evo 8 it felt very fast, after awhile it I got used to the power it felt normal. Then I got an old AE86 which made my Evo 8 felt like a rocket going between the 2. It's all relative.

[Homemade WRX]

Originally Posted by Caliban

any fool can race in a straight line.

You've never driven a 9 second or much less 10 second car, have you? It's a rush and handful...and yes, I'm a corner carver but can simply appreciate the skill that is required to drive a fast hand-shaker.

Originally Posted by Kostamojen

FB20 block for reference, probably going to be exactly the same.

Yup

Originally Posted by Daemione

Ask 100 car enthusiasts what their favorite car is of all time . . . how many of them will name the fastest car they've ever driven? My bet: less than 5.

170 whp in a lightweight car with no turbo lag or compressor whine? Seriously good times.

My favorite was my 26xx lb 94 Impreza when it was RWD and making about 330 bhp (for comparison).

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Why are there two distinct general curves on the dyno screen? One set peaks at 150 PS and the other peaks about 170 PS. Look how hideous the drop off of power is past the peak; the torque must plummet!

I had noticed the same and am wondering if the 170 isn't after some tweaking OR if they disabled a derate from some MIL lamp
They should have put it on an eddy-current, AWD, dyno and lashed the rollers together. An AWD Mustang would have been great for this.

Originally Posted by DSR2409

It has a 12.5:1 compression ratio...without direct injection, and a wide array of sensors, that is CR that far exceeds even 93 octane...It will almost certainly be recommended in the owner's manual to run minimum 91 octane...

I'm betting it does require premium from the factory but it does have DI
I also bet it could be tuned to run on 87 without an issue.

Originally Posted by serialk11r

So if you can get into the VVT-i controls, you can probably dial out the EGR and thereby lower volumetric efficiency, do not rev past 4500, and you can use 87. You could make it exactly like driving a Prius with DI and a tiny bit less compression ratio.

I like you^^ spot on. EGR tuning is something I deal with day in and day out. I'm actually working on a patent for it now.

Originally Posted by serialk11r

In 4th, it was 169ps, in 5th it was 172ps. However this is not actually "drivetrain loss", it is simply the effects of inertia. The true mechanical efficiency of the transmission + diff is in the high 80s to 90%. Oh and you have to add back in about 1-2hp for rolling resistance.

I need to buy you a :happy0180:

Originally Posted by wcbjr

Somebody should tell Cosworth about open deck blocks. They can't withstand high power...

What they hell does that have to do with anything?!! The EJ255/7 block was a band aid block built to suit the power levels for the STi in the US while passing emissions. It also has it's own weakness, see hardware relief in cylinder #4 where the cylinder wall splits). The EJ20 open decks (what was the original platform design for FI in the EJ family) and it holds up VERY well to abuse. Most of the hype you read are from guys who are hyped up about some new do-dad that some tuning shop without any actual study has posted.
Have you ever run a 500whp EJ20 and then torn it down after a few years?....didn't think so. If you had issues, I'd check your tune and bottom end machining and components, hint hint

Also for those who've boosted EJ251/3 blocks, you'll know they fail where they lack girdleing that the EJ255/7 has...not from sleeve distortion. The EJ255/7 are just as prone to splitting...just run them up north of 30 psi and have detonation...or really bad det in the 20s


As for the sharp drop off in power, this could be from a myriad or reasons HOWEVER I'll suspect it has to do largely with tuning around emissions. Heck, it could be as simple the ECU being tuned to be closing down the throttle body for NTE window and RMC/FTP cycles...and similar non-EPA tests required for Euro and Japanese compliances.

[JohnnyR]

Oops, just saw this too. Yes, you can bet this car's tuned for 91. It'll have allowances in for 89, and at 87 the car will just go into gimp mode for sure.

[wcbjr]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

About what I figured from this car. Sure, open-block isn't that bad as we know, but couple in that with the high cr, FI kits are going to be a nightmare to work out, unless you're ok with lower single digit lbs.

People get 500whp out of open-deck EJ257's all...day....long...

Hell, my puny little Legacy GT has run 17psi for 90k miles. Compression ratio only enters in because of detonation, and if you have that then you have other things to worry about.

There are diesel blocks that are open deck, and they run much higher CR's than gasoline.

[wcbjr]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

What they hell does that have to do with anything?!!

i am in complete agreement with what you are saying about the open decks.



i've had an RS-T, WRX and now LGT, and have been on Nabisco since 2001. if it matters.

[Leeky]

Thats a nice low transmission loss! Quite impressed with that

In all honesty i fully expected this new engine to be open deck. To keep weight and production costs down it makes perfect sense. Also with the power/torque the engine makes, you dont really need the extra strength that closed or semi provide.

If Toyota release a bolt on SC Kit for the car then they must have done sufficient testing to know that the block can take the extra abuse of forced induction even though its open deck. But i wouldnt want to push more than 300bhp out of it. Thats just pushing your luck in my opinion.

Im sure lots of people have got big power from open deck. But its just a fact that its weaker than semi/closed.

Personally i think if you want big boost and serious power then you're better off swapping in a whole closed deck STI engine rather than boosting this new lump. And i think this is Toyota's idea too.

[Homemade WRX]

Originally Posted by wcbjr

i am in complete agreement with what you are saying about the open decks.

i've had an RS-T, WRX and now LGT, and have been on Nabisco since 2001. if it matters.

I thought you were saying they can't hold up. Most people think of open deck issues and think they're all like Hondas. Even then those usually didn't run into serious trouble until making some good power.

:hugs: to another old school Subie head...before we had the WRX

[wcbjr]

Wheee! Damn I miss that car.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by ryude

A dyno is not for comparing cars to other cars, it's for comparing delta gains from modifications, timing retard from heat soak, etc. It's for tuning, that's it.

+1

[DommerEOD]

I'm great with 170 at the wheels pushing 2800lbs..

It could be a lot worse.. like my 172whp 1GR-FE pushing 5000lbs. That sucks.

[FR]

I don't get this whole argument with horsepower and torque

Sure I can paint my walls with a roller brush, but Picasso didn't use a friggin roller brush to paint, I want a precision tool. I drive a 318ti that besides muffler work and a few chip mods optimistically produces around 180hp with a 1.8 NA engine

The car is 2800 lbs and to be honest I'm waiting on the FR-S or BRZ to replace an aging car that has been a ball to handle.

Who cares about the stock numbers, we're all going to be modding the crap out of this car.

Some of you might as well start scavenging junkyards for a 2GRFE off a Sienna or god knows because those drag strip quarter mile numbers be calling !!!

[Hanzo]

Originally Posted by FR

I don't get this whole argument with horsepower and torque

Sure I can paint my walls with a roller brush, but Picasso didn't use a friggin roller brush to paint, I want a precision tool. I drive a 318ti that besides muffler work and a few chip mods optimistically produces around 180hp with a 1.8 NA engine

The car is 2800 lbs and to be honest I'm waiting on the FR-S or BRZ to replace an aging car that has been a ball to handle.

Who cares about the stock numbers, we're all going to be modding the crap out of this car.

Some of you might as well start scavenging junkyards for a 2GRFE off a Sienna or god knows because those drag strip quarter mile numbers be calling !!!

Actually Picasso might have (not joking).

[Gearbanger]

Originally Posted by subatoy

what super light car?! this car will be almost 2,800lbs in the US which is very far from anything light.
170whp is simply underwhelming, the GTI puts 200whp at the wheels stock and like someone else mentioned here, I care more about the torque curve tham HP.

NA boxer engines don't gain any power out of bolt-ons.
you will spend a fortune trying to get to 200whp on this car
and with a wrx getting 30whp cost you like $600.
from the Japanese prices on this car compared to the WRX
this car will cost around the same or EVEN MORE.
as much as I want to buy this car I just don't see ANY good numbers ANYWHERE.

Real Talk son! My old Celica GTS 2,425 with 180 crank horse power. This pig is 400 pounds heavier.

[wcbjr]

Pffft. JDM/EU CRX had 150hp and weighed 2000 lbs.

But who the hell cares.