TRD Wheels on a 2018 BRZ

[Grady]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

Staggered setup is for POSers, prove me wrong.

Checkmate!!!!!!



But that is the only reason!

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

You all talking about how offset doesnt do anything for performance, do you know how weight transfer and roll works and the relation between them and grip?

Wider tire doesnt make a difference in normal street driving, but suddenly, with a turbo you need wider tires, are you suddenly racing on the street because you have a turbo?

Staggered setup is for POSers, prove me wrong.

Yes, I understand, and have calculated, the amount of weight transfer regarding offset. More importantly, I've tested the theory at the track? Have you? The fact is that in a well balanced car that has little body roll, like the Twins, it makes virtually no difference in real world lap times. Weight transfer is directly related to the amount of body roll, i.e., moment of inertia forces on the tires. When you have minimal body roll, then it is the lateral friction of the tires that makes the difference. In addition, by going wider, you lose the balance created by the manufacturer in terms of handling capabilities.

Secondly, you ask about why a wider tire might be more important when you significantly increase the hp of the car? Really? Ever heard of hp at the driving wheels? We are talking about performance. You want examples? Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette, etc., etc., etc. If you don't care about performance or handling, or just don't want to spend the money, then certainly go square with a turbo....

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Yes, I understand, and have calculated, the amount of weight transfer regarding offset. More importantly, I've tested the theory at the track? Have you? The fact is that in a well balanced car that has little body roll, like the Twins, it makes virtually no difference in real world lap times. Weight transfer is directly related to the amount of body roll, i.e., moment of inertia forces on the tires. When you have minimal body roll, then it is the lateral friction of the tires that makes the difference. In addition, by going wider, you lose the balance created by the manufacturer in terms of handling capabilities.

Secondly, you ask about why a wider tire might be more important when you significantly increase the hp of the car? Really? Ever heard of hp at the driving wheels? We are talking about performance. You want examples? Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette, etc., etc., etc. If you don't care about performance or handling, or just don't want to spend the money, then certainly go square with a turbo....

Alright, I'll bite.

Bold quoted text,clearly shows you dont know how weight transfer works then. Im not going to explain that, look for the answer yourself if you want to learn something.

Since you asked, I did tried different offsets, same wheel, same tire, just adding or taking spacers out to see the difference. There is a difference in laptime, there is a difference in handling as well, specially on quick transitions.

Would you look at that, cars with suspension and chassis designed around using a staggered setup perform better with a staggered setup. I wonder how cars with suspension designed around square setup perform with a square setup...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The new GR 86 has a staggered setup. Front are 7 1/2 wheels and rear are 8 1/2 wheels. Tires are 215 and 235 respectively. So, it is quite possible in this car without too many changes.

https://toyotagazooracing.com/jp/gr/...ecs/equipment/

spends 20 pages of discourse trying to convince people 16x7 wheels are optimal then casually supports up to 8.5" widths.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by fatoni

spends 20 pages of discourse trying to convince people 16x7 wheels are optimal then casually supports up to 8.5" widths.

If you get much more power, then you need to go wider. Me and rvoll were always quite clear on this. In such case, a staggered setup is also possible.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

If you get much more power, then you need to go wider. Me and rvoll were always quite clear on this. In such case, a staggered setup is also possible.

How much more power does the gr 86 have?

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

Alright, I'll bite.

Bold quoted text,clearly shows you dont know how weight transfer works then. Im not going to explain that, look for the answer yourself if you want to learn something.

Since you asked, I did tried different offsets, same wheel, same tire, just adding or taking spacers out to see the difference. There is a difference in laptime, there is a difference in handling as well, specially on quick transitions.

Would you look at that, cars with suspension and chassis designed around using a staggered setup perform better with a staggered setup. I wonder how cars with suspension designed around square setup perform with a square setup...

Really? Have you studied physics? The moment of inertia dictates the downward force. You have both lateral and downward forces when you turn. The more body roll, the more the downward force and less lateral force. In a car that has less body roll, you also have less downward force based on the moment of inertia. I'm afraid you know little about physics here.

I have trouble believing you actually tested with spacers since that would require replacing studs every time. But even if you did, it was not a blind test so the results are questionable. I've done blind testing in my car clubs specifically to address this issue and with the same driver who did not know the setup. Results showed virtually no difference in lap times. But you will wear out your bearings and suspension faster with that setup.

And, again, if you actually read my posts, you'd see that I indicated that if you really wanted to maximize performance with a turbo, you would also modify your suspension with a suspension DESIGNED for the specific power and suspension setup. So your argument just doesn't apply. If you want to go on the cheap, then you are not talking about performance.

[churchx]

Oh. So there are turbo-only designed suspension parts for our cars made? Can you point to some? You are not mistakening by chance with transmission parts, are you?
BTW, how do you explain mass & grip transfer for karts with no real suspension and hard mounted axles to frame? As they (almost) don't roll, only tires (very slightly) flex, mass transfer isn't happening for karts?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

you gonna spread this like cancer.

You called

I have actually refrained from interjecting my inaccuracies into this thread.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Really? Have you studied physics? The moment of inertia dictates the downward force. You have both lateral and downward forces when you turn. The more body roll, the more the downward force and less lateral force. In a car that has less body roll, you also have less downward force based on the moment of inertia. I'm afraid you know little about physics here.

I have trouble believing you actually tested with spacers since that would require replacing studs every time. But even if you did, it was not a blind test so the results are questionable. I've done blind testing in my car clubs specifically to address this issue and with the same driver who did not know the setup. Results showed virtually no difference in lap times. But you will wear out your bearings and suspension faster with that setup.

And, again, if you actually read my posts, you'd see that I indicated that if you really wanted to maximize performance with a turbo, you would also modify your suspension with a suspension DESIGNED for the specific power and suspension setup. So your argument just doesn't apply. If you want to go on the cheap, then you are not talking about performance.

Bro, you have some twisted concepts of how things work so Im going to leave this here. Since to you weight transfer is the effect that body roll has, would a kart, that has no suspension, and thus, no body roll, have no weight transfer at all?

[Jordanwolf]

A setup like below is what would allow for the more power and best handling to be achieved. As you can see below, the tire actually in contact to the ground is very skinny, thus increasing performance, but when going around a corner, the part that was not in contact with the ground, suddenly comes in contact on the side the corner is being taken and also allows for extreme speed corner exit. This is what you can call science in it's greatest form.

Here is a little math to prove this is the setup that achieves the best performance: t=torque s=speed u=units i=intake d=downforce p=performance

s3(t)/u90p + i = D

This formula shows the strength of the 86 platform.





I am smarter than you guys.

[NoHaveMSG]

@Jordanwolf

Ahhh, that is the camber I need to get a little more heat into the inner third of my tires. Can you share specs?

[churchx]

Jordanwolf: there is one grave mistake in that build. Ring in towing belt drags on road. That drag will kill acceleration!
That guy did smart though with exhaust tip angle. When he floors it, exhaust gases will provide more downforce and thus better grip in drag races!

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by churchx

Jordanwolf: there is one grave mistake in that build. Ring in towing belt drags on road. That drag will kill acceleration!
That guy did smart though with exhaust tip angle. When he floors it, exhaust gases will provide more downforce and thus better grip in drag races!

Don't for get my equational formula of math:

s3(t)/u90p + i = D