entry level tune

[mrnibbs]

I am new to the sports car world so tuning is like a second language to me so please bear with me.... I just I stalled my Perrin catback resonated exhaust yesterday and I was wondering what a good entry level tune would be for that exhaust....

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by mrnibbs

I am new to the sports car world so tuning is like a second language to me so please bear with me.... I just I stalled my Perrin catback resonated exhaust yesterday and I was wondering what a good entry level tune would be for that exhaust....

Read first: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29340

Then purchase: http://www.perrinperformance.com/brz...rogramming-kit

[Fast_Freddy]

You don't need a tune for basic bolt-ons like intake, header, exhaust (IHE). The oem ECU dynamically adapts, learns and can easily compensate for such small changes. A tune can provide additional performance increase but is only necessary when making drastic changes like forced induction or cams.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

You don't need a tune for basic bolt-ons like intake, header, exhaust (IHE). The oem ECU dynamically adapts, learns and can easily compensate for such small changes. A tune can provide additional performance increase but is only necessary when making drastic changes like forced induction or cams.

It actually adapts in a negative way
Makes the car run richer which screwes up your mpg and slower

[86_ZN6]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

You don't need a tune for basic bolt-ons like intake, header, exhaust (IHE). The oem ECU dynamically adapts, learns and can easily compensate for such small changes. A tune can provide additional performance increase but is only necessary when making drastic changes like forced induction or cams.

even without bolt ons you need a tune/flash to wake up your car's true potential

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by SmsAlSuwaidi

It actually adapts in a negative way
Makes the car run richer which screwes up your mpg and slower

Where did you hear that? The ECU will always achieve it's stoich target AFR during closed loop operation, which is 99% of the time. In open loop, increased airflow from IHE mods should result in a slightly leaner AFR, which is what the tuners are doing to add power.

FWIW I turbocharged my 08 XB with no "tune" other than 20% larger fuel injectors. The ECU had no problem adapting to the new injectors and this setup worked great for 5 years and 45k miles. MPG stayed roughly the same and 6psi netted +120whp/wtq, 0-60 in 5.5s and 1/4 mile in 14.1s.

These new Denso ECUs are a lot more capable than people seem to think.

Originally Posted by 86_ZN6

even without bolt ons you need a tune/flash to wake up your car's true potential

News to me. What should I expect from a "tune/flash" and how much will it cost? Keep in mind that I'll "need" a new tune/flash every time I add more IHE pieces.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Where did you hear that? The ECU will always achieve it's stoich target AFR during closed loop operation, which is 99% of the time. In open loop, increased airflow from IHE mods should result in a slightly leaner AFR, which is what the tuners are doing to add power.

FWIW I turbocharged my 08 XB with no "tune" other than 20% larger fuel injectors. The ECU had no problem adapting to the new injectors and this setup worked great for 5 years and 45k miles. MPG stayed roughly the same and 6psi netted +120whp/wtq, 0-60 in 5.5s and 1/4 mile in 14.1s.

These new Denso ECUs are a lot more capable than people seem to think.



News to me. What should I expect from a "tune/flash" and how much will it cost? Keep in mind that I'll "need" a new tune/flash every time I add more IHE pieces.

Sadly the denso isn't doing a great job in my car then, with a straight headerback and an intake it's running super rich and poping like crazy also its getting crapy mpgs

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by SmsAlSuwaidi

Sadly the denso isn't doing a great job in my car then, with a straight headerback and an intake it's running super rich and poping like crazy also its getting crapy mpgs

It's not fair to blame the ECU for a poorly designed intake that screwed up the MAF readings. If the ECU still had accurate MAF data, it would be running perfectly unless something else is wrong, but then you'd have a CEL. How do you know you're running super rich? Do you have a P0172 DTC for it or a wideband AFR gauge? The ECU should still be able to achieve stoich AFR in closed loop based on instantaneous AFR sensor feedback. It could run poorly while the ECU is still adapting the long term fuel trims to match the new intake's MAF error but eventually it should adjust to variances of +/- 20% or so. Well, at least in closed loop. What the ECU learns and the LTFTs are also carried over into open loop but it's entirely possible to run too lean or too rich in open loop since the ECU ignores the AFR sensor.

I'm not saying not to get a tune or that a tune isn't worth it. I'm only saying that a tune shouldn't be needed for basic IHE mods.

Good luck with your tune.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

It's not fair to blame the ECU for a poorly designed intake that screwed up the MAF readings. If the ECU still had accurate MAF data, it would be running perfectly unless something else is wrong, but then you'd have a CEL. How do you know you're running super rich? Do you have a P0172 DTC for it or a wideband AFR gauge? The ECU should still be able to achieve stoich AFR in closed loop based on instantaneous AFR sensor feedback. It could run poorly while the ECU is still adapting the long term fuel trims to match the new intake's MAF error but eventually it should adjust to variances of +/- 20% or so. Well, at least in closed loop. What the ECU learns and the LTFTs are also carried over into open loop but it's entirely possible to run too lean or too rich in open loop since the ECU ignores the AFR sensor.

I'm not saying not to get a tune or that a tune isn't worth it. I'm only saying that a tune shouldn't be needed for basic IHE mods.

Good luck with your tune.

sorry i meant a drop in *

and true the ecu does adapt but to achieve the actually gains you'd like its better to get a tune. A tune is never needed

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

You don't need a tune for basic bolt-ons like intake, header, exhaust (IHE). The oem ECU dynamically adapts, learns and can easily compensate for such small changes. A tune can provide additional performance increase but is only necessary when making drastic changes like forced induction or cams.

I disagree. To get the most out of any bolt ons, get a tune first then buy bolt-ons, do your logging and have your tuner send you an updated tune

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

I disagree. To get the most out of any bolt ons, get a tune first then buy bolt-ons, do your logging and have your tuner send you an updated tune

It's your money. Do all "tunes" come with free re-tunes for life? What's the typical "tune" warranty cover? Surely a "tune" voids the oem warranty.