Heel Toe Around Town?

[phloozy]

Either people in this thread don't understand what heel toe is, or I dont understand what heel toe is. If you aren't breaking you aren't heel toeing, god gave you 2 feet for a reason.

[chillywilly]

Originally Posted by ML

You mean left foot braking?

pretty much yeah, if you are more comfortable with controlling the brakes and throttle with one foot than left foot brake.

Edit: I think the Senna video earlier in this thread showed him doing that around corners

[2point0]

Another use for this technique...

I taught myself heel/toe without realizing what it was. I was living in an area where the street leading out had a nasty incline at the intersection, and it was always damp (foggiest place in the Bay). The Mustang would just spin tires if I tried to just gas-n-go, so I had to come up with another way to get a smooth start. The SF Bay Area is full of streets like this. I know some people use the hand brake as a safety, but that wouldn't be an option for two reasons. 1) the E-brake is a handle under the dash (pull/twist type) and 2) it didn't work that well in the first place. It didn't help that I was a poor college kid and usually bought used tires.

For me, it's my left-most toes on the brake with my right-most toes on the gas. I couldn't get my heel on the gas pedal if I wanted to. Even then, I could stand to have the two pedals a smidge closer together. Or a wider gas pedal.

[whaap]

Originally Posted by Freetime

no. because I would rather replace brakes than replace the clutch.

I'm confused. If you're referring to my post #50 I don't understand what you're saying. If you're not, that explains my confusion.

[whaap]

Originally Posted by Marchy

I do the blip and hold, blip throttle up, hold revs and release clutch. Sounds very similar to what you posted above

By my definition you're not blipping. You're bringing the revs up which is the same thing I'm talking about. Blipping is arbitrarily punching and releasing the throttle while down shifting. That makes being at the right rpms, when the clutch is released, sort-of-a hit and miss. You will hear a lot of motorcycles blipping and as far as I'm concened they're only showing off their pipes.

[CAMBAM_6]

I practice Rev Matching sometimes, but normally regular driving doesnt (IMO) need all that extra heel toe, i just downshift when braking..been doing it for years never had any major clutch/transmission problems. But i dont drive to work like im on a track, to much traffic..lol

[SkullWorks]

maybe this takes more effort than I realize for other people, but manipulating the gas while maintaining (even the slightest amount) of consistent braking is beyond second nature at this point.

For instance when i get off the freeway to go to work it is a downhill right then left to a stop usually with traffic around the end of the left,

As i merge into the turn lane I start to brake and downshift from 6th to 3rd, (with a blip with my right heel towards the base of the gas pedal (size 11 boots)) landing me in the 3.5-4k range, I then ease off the brakes and let the engine braking (because my fuel cut and cam overlap sound badass lol) slow the car down as i roll thru the right and into the left, usually braking at the entrance of the left pending traffic at the light, if no traffic hey guess what i am in 3rd, roll on gas and go to work. if traffic but light has changed brake and blip to drop to second, otherwise clutch in and put in neutral brake to stop



Does it really take that much explanation? Come on guys why does everythread turn into a flame fest, this seemed an innocent enough pole, now everyone is in here trying to either out mature the rest (heck we all just bought toys for gown ass men (and women)) or trying to out race-car-super-aware-commuter-of-the-year the next guy.


My brain is programmed to play with both pedals, maybe it's because i leaned to drive towing a boat with no trailer brakes in a 4.6 triton powered f-150 on Maui...you want to talk about steep learning curve. Maybe it's because when I get track instruction I commit to using it and burning it to memory, so when im braking I know a downshift will be needed so i just figure, hey lets get that out of the way while we are here.....

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by whaap

Blipping is arbitrarily punching and releasing the throttle while down shifting. That makes being at the right rpms, when the clutch is released, sort-of-a hit and miss.

This statement assumes that the operator of the gas pedal is not accustomed to the vehicle, or has little experience.

Kind of like saying an educated guess is just a stab in the dark...it really depends on who's educated guess doesn't it?

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Come on guys why does everythread turn into a flame fest, this seemed an innocent enough pole

LOL!

Not for a moment was this EVER an "innocent poll."

It was filled with bias and prejudice from the beginning.

Have you noticed the absence of our learned friend, @Lauren, from the UK?

I expect that he wisely decided to leave these ignorant, rude, disrespectful, and UNSKILLED Americans strictly alone.

There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see…

[whaap]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

This statement assumes that the operator of the gas pedal is not accustomed to the vehicle, or has little experience.

Kind of like saying an educated guess is just a stab in the dark...it really depends on who's educated guess doesn't it?

Perhaps some get it right as well as some don't, but what confuses me is your stating you'd rather replace your brakes than your clutch.

[iaclimber4]

Heel/Toe all the time. It's just a technique. Yes it's used during racing, but simply put, it's rev matching while braking. It's now second nature to me but i decided to focus on it while driving yesterday, and honestly, it doesn't take much braking force in order to be able to effectively blip the throttle.

The main lesson to learn while practicing is being able to hit the gas while maintaining a constant pressure on the brake. I remember the first time i tried, and many times after that i would lunge forward as i was putting more pressure on both the brake and accelerator. Practice, practice, practice.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

maybe this takes more effort than I realize for other people,

I think that's what I'm having trouble wrapping my head around, I have exactly zero instances (in traffic) where I need to brake AND downshift at the same time, I usually just downshift and let the fuel cutoff/compressor mode do the work of slowing down and brake from second/third gear down to whatever speed I need. The distance I need to push the brake to get it "below" the gas pedal is further than I ever push it in daily driving.

I'm stumped as to why there's so much arguing, the definition is pretty simple and shown in numerous videos and written up well in wiki, guess it's just vocabulary and interpretation.



Also: clearest video of Heel Toe I've ever seen below
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuoZeuSgEj4"]Heel Toe Driving Technique - YouTube[/ame]

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Porsche

LOL!

Not for a moment was this EVER an "innocent poll."

There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see…

I take umbrage dear sir, I only meant to understand how many people are devoted to heel toeing at every opportunity and if I am alone in my "ignorance".

Could you elaborate as to what I "WILL NOT see"? I assume I'm not "advanced" enough to understand in my woefully poor education.

Originally Posted by whaap

Perhaps some get it right as well as some don't, but what confuses me is your stating you'd rather replace your brakes than your clutch.

Generally speaking rev matching (especially while learning) puts a bit of wear on the clutch, the person you are replying to (or rather the person who stated use brakes over clutch) would rather not use the clutch and uses the brakes which are cheaper and easier to replace. I don't think he was responding to you specifically but rather my original post. You're absolutely right, if you've got it down then rev-matching should add minimal wear to the clutch and it should last nearly the life of the vehicle. To each their own, hence the poll.

:happy0180:

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by whaap

Perhaps some get it right as well as some don't, but what confuses me is your stating you'd rather replace your brakes than your clutch.

I never stated anything of the sort...you have me confused for someone else sir,

But FWIW it is far easier to swap brakes than to change the clutch,

Furthermore, what i described in no way increases brake or clutch wear and is actually best for both, limited amount of braking done with the brakes minimal amount of slip in clutch (clutch does not wear after engagement only when slipping.)