We can almost beat a s2000!!!

[Pbrown]

I agree the Honda should clearly beat the FRS. Up here though a new S2000 cost north of $50000, my FRS cost under $26000, Let me add $24000 in mods to my car and see what happens. Actually I will only spend another 8 grand on my car and should easily be able to handle the Honda. Both are awesome cars though. We really have to start comparing all these cars based on equal amounts of money put into them.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I hate to take it to you, but in a drag race, you'll never win NA for NA.

Disclaimer: I own a S2000, and drive the CSG BRZ.


Watch this video to see the power difference in action...

Great vids.. Thanks for posting.. Was clear to see the differences as pointed out.. Shows too how the 86 was able to make up time via handling to close the gap some.. But clearly, once the Honda winds up it pulls hard and puts some distance..
So the BRZ doesn't rotate like the Honda because of oversteer? Or is it due to balance?

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by AyJay

I currently own an AP2 S2k and an FR-S so my opinion is unbiased. Please don't fill your head with ideas that the FRS is as fast as the S2000. Like with most cars, the driver can make it shine or flop.

From my experience on road courses, the FR-S has a long way to go before it can compete with the highly developed s2ks that you find in most track org's advanced groups. I say this as someone who's driven them and driven against them.

It may get there ... but it's not competitive yet.

I definitely agree with you. While I love my fr-s and can't wait to track it, I can't believe how fast some of these s2000's are...

(Track time n/a s2000 1:30.8x at Willow Springs)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EZ_J8J912Y"]Naturally Aspirated S2000 at Willow Springs WSIR - 1:30.864 - YouTube[/ame]

I really don't get it, lol. That's faster than any 350z, or even 370z I've seen, and faster than most corvettes (stock form) except the zr1. In comparison, @robispec e85 fr-s with weight reduction +more hit a 1:35.x (which definitely isn't slow its just far from what I see these s2000's doing!)

FR-S definitely wins as a daily driver though, IMO.

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Good lap thanks for the post

I've seen faster s2000's still, lol... but that's a really good lap

EDIT: Is that with e85?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Great vids.. Thanks for posting.. Was clear to see the differences as pointed out.. Shows too how the 86 was able to make up time via handling to close the gap some.. But clearly, once the Honda winds up it pulls hard and puts some distance..
So the BRZ doesn't rotate like the Honda because of oversteer? Or is it due to balance?

A stock BRZ understeers quick badly...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

I definitely agree with you. While I love my fr-s and can't wait to track it, I can't believe how fast some of these s2000's are...

(Track time n/a s2000 1:30.8x at Willow Springs)

I really don't get it, lol. That's faster than any 350z, or even 370z I've seen, and faster than most corvettes (stock form) except the zr1. In comparison, @robispec e85 fr-s with weight reduction +more hit a 1:35.x (which definitely isn't slow its just far from what I see these s2000's doing!)

FR-S definitely wins as a daily driver though, IMO.

I know Brian (driver of that car). Car was specifically set up for WSIR that day. Makes maybe 250hp at the crank (~10 over stock).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

Good lap thanks for the post

I've seen faster s2000's still, lol... but that's a really good lap

EDIT: Is that with e85?

There's only a handful of s2ks that run Sub-2 at Buttonwillow, and none of them are anywhere near as minimally modified... except perhaps the CSG S2k.

[FRSfan111]

I'm so jelly of you guys. All I have in Oregon is PIR...I have no cool track to even dream of getting to race on or even training on for that matter. Ever sice the rally crash years ago PIR does nothing :/. If my job didn't pay well I'd relocate.

[CAMBAM_6]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Don't get me wrong, I love Honda engines. One of my favorite cars of all time was my Integra GSR. But that being said, Honda no longer makes those engines. Their four cylinders now are much more pedestrian and unexciting. Also, the AP2 s2000 got terrible gas mileage compared to the twins.

With no more bolt ons than a Borla UEL header (to eliminate torque valley), drop in filter and a proper tune the twins will run with a stock s2000 and they will still cost a hell of a lot less than the final year s2000s did.

Yes they make the K20/24 engines which are significantly better then the B series, what are you talking about?

[FRSfan111]

K swapping s2ks is becoming more common. I miss the type r and s2k redlined though. I wish the twins had at least an 8k redline

[Opposed]

Stock for stock the S2k will be quicker for sure. I had an AP1 with full bolt-ons and 4.77 gears. But I have no doubt that my FRS with E85 will pull nicely on one. Im only 7whp lower on the same dyno than my S2k put down, but lets talk about low end torque. My FRS is making 25-30 lb/ft more the entire rev range. My S2k only made 136tq at the whees, and it didn't see that until a little over 7k rpms. It had under 120 lb/ft below 6k. The FRS with a tune has gobs more torque, and better drivability around town IMO. I hated pulling away from stop lights in my S. Especially with the A/C on in the summer. What a dog!

[whitejdm]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Don't get me wrong, I love Honda engines. One of my favorite cars of all time was my Integra GSR. But that being said, Honda no longer makes those engines. Their four cylinders now are much more pedestrian and unexciting. Also, the AP2 s2000 got terrible gas mileage compared to the twins.

With no more bolt ons than a Borla UEL header (to eliminate torque valley), drop in filter and a proper tune the twins will run with a stock s2000 and they will still cost a hell of a lot less than the final year s2000s did.

The K24's still in production are amazing motors even with the reduced redline (ironically down to where our cars are). And I'm not suggesting the twins aren't the better value but just saying the S2k's motor feels much stronger than even the numbers suggest stock vs stock.

[Opposed]

We still have an advantage over a stock F20C, even with the torque dip. That is, until they hit VTEC, and we run out of steam...

[mistressmotorsports]

Originally Posted by Pbrown

. We really have to start comparing all these cars based on equal amounts of money put into them.

Maybe or maybe not, just an opinion. In fact, we could turn this around and say that your can't get an FR-S for less than mid- $20's right now, but you can get an S2K for $15K (or less even.) So now you have $10k to put into the S2K and nothing to put into the FR-S. So, it just depends on how you look at it.

I had an AP1 S2K before I got the FR-S. Both are great cars. I get about 2 mpg better in the FR-S, which is not really why I bought the car. I find them comparable in many respects. I do not find one to handle significantly better or worse than the other. They feel a little different, but I wouldn't say one was more capable on the street. The Honda (mine was stock, as is the FR-S) was obviously faster in a straight line. Haven't been to the track yet in the FR-S, so no comparison there. It was nice to put the top down on the Honda, I do miss that a bit.