Eneos 0w20

[bluesubie]

Be sure to do a virgin uoa as well since additive levels, viscosity, etc. can vary with different reports. If you want to go all out and see if the viscosity varies over the interval you can do several uoa's during the interval using an oil pump (Blackstone and OAI both sell them).

Over on the Outback forum , a guy had a Blackstone uoa done on Rotella T6 and the ZDDP levels came back very low. I suggested that he email Blackstone and they re-tested the same oil and all additive levels came back 10-20% higher. They said it was a calibration problem.

-Dennis

[Laika]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

Be sure to do a virgin uoa as well since additive levels, viscosity, etc. can vary with different reports. If you want to go all out and see if the viscosity varies over the interval you can do several uoa's during the interval using an oil pump (Blackstone and OAI both sell them).

Over on the Outback forum , a guy had a Blackstone uoa done on Rotella T6 and the ZDDP levels came back very low. I suggested that he email Blackstone and they re-tested the same oil and all additive levels came back 10-20% higher. They said it was a calibration problem.

-Dennis

I was going to do a VOA for each lot number (My current 24 quarts are from the same lot but who knows how their sublots work but I digress).

That's really a shame about that rotella sample. Like I said in the last post, a real oil analysis for $25 is far too good to be true. I'd probably spend nearly that much in consumables just running a few tests to prevent contamination.

Just a disclaimer: If you're a normal, reasonable person, STOP reading this thread. You will waste your time in search of "better" oil that may be a figment of another man's imagination. It's pretty much all the same.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Laika

Just a disclaimer: If you're a normal, reasonable person, STOP reading this thread. You will waste your time in search of "better" oil that may be a figment of another man's imagination. It's pretty much all the same.

+1

-Dennis

[regal]

I just don't get paying this much for an oil that has very low zinc, phosphate, and moly. I guess you get to feel good about meeting the EPA's latest requirements and don't care about engine longevity trading off the car before the end of warranty.

But some of us do care about long term engine wear. A car with a worn out engine at 75k does much worse to the environment than proper oil chemistry. My engine isn't going to be run on an un-proven oil like this, just too risky and lacking key ingredients that have shown to work the last several decades, sorry.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by regal

I just don't get paying this much for an oil that has very low zinc, phosphate, and moly. I guess you get to feel good about meeting the EPA's latest requirements and don't care about engine longevity trading off the car before the end of warranty.

But some of us do care about long term engine wear. A car with a worn out engine at 75k does much worse to the environment than proper oil chemistry. My engine isn't going to be run on an un-proven oil like this, just too risky and lacking key ingredients that have shown to work the last several decades, sorry.

The EPA does not set limitations on oil additives. This is set by the American Petroleum Institute and ILSAC (Japanese and American auto manufacturers).
http://www.api.org/certification-pro...-api-standards

As zinc, phosphorus, and moly are being reduced in engine oils, additive companies are increasing other multi-functional additives (calcium, boron), coming out with new forms of moly (see below), using better viscosity modifiers, using non-metallic additives, and making oil from better base stocks.

http://www.infineum.com/Documents/Cr...ogy%202009.pdf

Are there recent studies to show that wear is increasing due to lower additive levels? And I'm not referring old school hot rods that need high ZDDP for flat tappet cams. No need to get all "the sky is falling" around here.

Eneos and Eneos Sustina are not "unproven". They both meet the specs required by the API (SN) and ILSAC (GF5).

-Dennis

[Myv]

Originally Posted by chenshuo

i just checked out their site. 4L Eneos is $40 that's not bad but FT86Speedfactory is a lot cheaper. I goto Windsor often so i guess i'll just buy it in Detroit.

Any trouble bring engine oil over the border?

In Toronto region,

Go to ebay and search Eneos 0w-20, goodwinwin-com, he has 4Qts x4 for around $126~ comes out to be like $31 a jug of 4Qts good for 3 changes, they also have 1Qts jugs. You can do local pickup too, one at Mississauga location and another near Sheppard/Birchmount Scaraborough region. No Eneos Sustina though.

[chenshuo]

Originally Posted by Myv

In Toronto region,

Go to ebay and search Eneos 0w-20, goodwinwin-com, he has 4Qts x4 for around $126~ comes out to be like $31 a jug of 4Qts good for 3 changes, they also have 1Qts jugs. You can do local pickup too, one at Mississauga location and another near Sheppard/Birchmount Scaraborough region. No Eneos Sustina though.

I'm planning to use Motul for my next oil change. Not quite sure how much better Eneos is compared to Motul.

[DR 86]

Originally Posted by chenshuo

I'm planning to use Motul for my next oil change. Not quite sure how much better Eneos is compared to Motul.

Depends on what grade of Motul. Probably not much difference between Eco-lite 8100 and ENEOS. 300V is just overkill if you're not tracking your car. If you like throwing money down the drain, I'd be happy to take some

[chenshuo]

Originally Posted by DR 86

Depends on what grade of Motul. Probably not much difference between Eco-lite 8100 and ENEOS. 300V is just overkill if you're not tracking your car. If you like throwing money down the drain, I'd be happy to take some

I'm taking my car to iGarage to get my first oil change, transmission fluid and diff fluid change. Not sure what grade of Motul iGarage uses.

[regal]

Originally Posted by DR 86

Depends on what grade of Motul. Probably not much difference between Eco-lite 8100 and ENEOS. 300V is just overkill if you're not tracking your car. If you like throwing money down the drain, I'd be happy to take some

I think its way to early to say that 300V is overkill, remember the new oils with low ZDDP have only be in use for a little over a year. 300V has more in common with a Subaru favorite Rotellla than you would guess.

The telling story to me is the factory fill oil analysis, lots of moly . The engineers were able to spec an oil they wanted for break-in due to the way the standards are written. The factory fill has more in common with red-line and 300V than anything else on the market as far as I can tell. Possibly the new mazda high moly is a good compromise.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by regal

I think its way to early to say that 300V is overkill, remember the new oils with low ZDDP have only be in use for a little over a year. 300V has more in common with a Subaru favorite Rotellla than you would guess.

The telling story to me is the factory fill oil analysis, lots of moly . The engineers were able to spec an oil they wanted for break-in due to the way the standards are written. The factory fill has more in common with red-line and 300V than anything else on the market as far as I can tell. Possibly the new mazda high moly is a good compromise.

Phosphorus levels between GF4 and GF5 are the same so the lower ZDDP oils have actually been around for at least eight years.
http://www.gf-5.com/the_story/performance/

I believe that what is happening is that the levels are lower than the maximum in many oils in order to meet the stricter piston cleanliness (and other) specs. Again, multi-functional additives like calcium and boron have also been boosted.

One reason that the factory fill contains a lot of moly is for fuel economy and I have an email from Idemitsu to confirm this. They wouldn't go into other details but I suspect it has to do with break-in. Don't forget that while some of the moly seen in a factory fill uoa is from the factory Idemitsu oil, some of it is also from assembly lube.

-Dennis

[regal]

Good points, the moly in the breakin oil could very well be assembly lube. But you have to admit that Madzda just now releasing this high moly GF-5 with a very nice high VI index makes it an interesting blend. At least we know how they are handling the situation.

The issue is the mulit-functional additives are trade secret Eneos and others don't really do a good job of marketing this feature, so its a matter of trust, something may of us are a bit reluctant to have

My biggest concern is long term corrosion without the ZDDP and moly protection to the heads and bearings with a cold start (which produces a majority of the wear.)

Also we don't know yet how much build up in the intake and the intake valves this engine will have, the port injection should help some but few have taken off the manifold to see. The NOACK Evaporation Loss is relatively high..

Walmart Synthetc 5W-20 meets GF-5 and analysis is really not far from Eneos relatively speaking. I've put 1k on this walmart oil as a bit of an experiment and the oil is so clean it looks new, really surprised me. I am convinced that a 20W is correct for this motor, Mazda oil may be they way to go especially with them having significant experience with direct injection if you want GL-5. If the meeting the GL-5 requirements aren't important then there is redline and motul 300V, there you know what you are getting, price is lower than Eneos and the protection scheme are much more transparent.

Not saying Eneos is bad but really do they show any indication that they include "multi functional" additives which help the low zddp/moly situation over common walmart oil and/or PP Platinum which are significantly cheaper GL5 oils ?

[chenshuo]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

One reason that the factory fill contains a lot of moly is for fuel economy and I have an email from Idemitsu to confirm this. They wouldn't go into other details but I suspect it has to do with break-in. Don't forget that while some of the moly seen in a factory fill uoa is from the factory Idemitsu oil, some of it is also from assembly lube.

-Dennis

are you saying that after i get my first oil change, to Motul, i'm gonna see my gas milage to go down?

[regal]

Originally Posted by chenshuo

are you saying that after i get my first oil change, to Motul, i'm gonna see my gas milage to go down?

Can't, there is more to it than that I do think whether the moly comes from the assembly lube or the factory fil oil it must be beneficial if they recommend keeping it 5k miles. And common sense says it would be beneficial for a long term oil like the Mazda 0w20 moly.