STi owner (now BRZ) jumping in late

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Even if you enjoy driving it all the time you can't deny the engine sucks. It has no personality and sounds horrible (stock at least). Not a lot of joy to derive from it, something even my GSR has. Maybe Honda high revvers have spoiled me

I'm sorry, I'll deny you:

The engine does not suck, by virtue of good factory transmission gearing.

The moment you add more power or more RPMs, you introduce variables that require you to start changing gearing on the transmission.

-alex

[KevinBRZ]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Even if you enjoy driving it all the time you can't deny the engine sucks. It has no personality and sounds horrible (stock at least). Not a lot of joy to derive from it, something even my GSR has. Maybe Honda high revvers have spoiled me

You're right, the BRZ sounds like a diesel tractor at high RPMs. I definitely prefer the smooth grind of vtec. However, I wouldn't say the engine sucks, it just needs the torque dip tuned out. I don't know why it's there. That is the only disappointing thing for me.

[mightyt73]

Should of went with WRB to save on the paint! I like the white though.

[WolfpackS2k]

The moment you add more power or more RPMs, you introduce variables that require you to start changing gearing on the transmission.

Alex, that's just ridiculous. Another 50ish horsepower and nothing needs to be changed gearing wise. Nothing.

[kilrb]

Originally Posted by maverickar15

I'd almost turn around and say it this way - other tall cars NEED that much more power to keep it interesting, while BRZ only needs this little to keep you entertained.

I'll go a step further and say that it's not just the lowness of the car. You know what's crazy, coming from a 410whp, 3,100# FRC Vette with Z06 suspension, which sat lower than the BRZ, I still think I get more enjoyment out of the BRZ. It's completely irrational! That Vette had to have handled better, and it sure as hell accelerated 10x harder, and drove low and aggressive, yet... somehow the BRZ is just more fun? I love the looks I get when I try to explain that to someone.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Alex, that's just ridiculous. Another 50ish horsepower and nothing needs to be changed gearing wise. Nothing.

What is the end goal of your statement? Acceleration? Fuel economy? Handling? Performance at the track? "Budget" sports car for under $25k?

Without a goal, yes your statement may be correct. It's like saying, drinking 2 beers won't get you drunk. This statement wildly varies based on the individual, and generally speaking 2 beers won't get you drunk.

What I'm saying is, if the stated end goals of the BRZ/FRS was not changed from Toyota/Subaru, adding HP means the transmission gearing & final drive would have to be modified to meet their project needs.

It's not THAT simple...

-alex

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by kilrb

I'll go a step further and say that it's not just the lowness of the car. You know what's crazy, coming from a 410whp, 3,100# FRC Vette with Z06 suspension, which sat lower than the BRZ, I still think I get more enjoyment out of the BRZ. It's completely irrational! That Vette had to have handled better, and it sure as hell accelerated 10x harder, and drove low and aggressive, yet... somehow the BRZ is just more fun? I love the looks I get when I try to explain that to someone.

So you are the Eyes Candy kind ? It is a good thing that FRS look good, and they are very safe, because they are too slow!

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by mav1178

What is the end goal of your statement? Acceleration? Fuel economy? Handling? Performance at the track? "Budget" sports car for under $25k?

Without a goal, yes your statement may be correct. It's like saying, drinking 2 beers won't get you drunk. This statement wildly varies based on the individual, and generally speaking 2 beers won't get you drunk.

What I'm saying is, if the stated end goals of the BRZ/FRS was not changed from Toyota/Subaru, adding HP means the transmission gearing & final drive would have to be modified to meet their project needs.

It's not THAT simple...

-alex

I don't know why you're trying to needlessly complicate things. You "could" just leave the rest alone. You don't "need" to modify the gearing. And even if they wanted to, BFD. That's ridiculously easy to do at the factory. Camaros and Mustangs have been offered with multiple final drives since the dawn of time.

[5th 86]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Some of you guys are being ridiculous. The BRZ is not fast. Just admit it. The car's glaring pitfall and main source of criticism is it's engine. And you cannot deny that it would be more enjoyable to drive with an extra 50-75 hp (hell, probably 30 could do it). Adding that horsepower will do nothing to diminish the driving enjoyment you already have.

The BRZ/s handling prowess already allows it to take twisty turns are more than double the speed limit. I know all the cloverleaf exit/entrance ramps around me can be taken at 65 mph+ and people are probably surprised to see a car being flung onto the interstate already exceeding the posted limit. I'm not sure how that can be called "low limit" fun. And adding more horsepower won't get you through the turn faster. It just might get you there faster, as well as require the use of your brakes a bit more.

There's nothing great about this engine, though I will admit I thought it sounded pretty good the other day at 6000 rpm in 4th gear when I was passing someone on a 2 lane section of Hwy 49 driving to Charlotte.

BTW speaking from personal experience you picked great color

The great thing about the engine is you can bag on the engine hard and it barely uses any fuel compared to most performance/fun to drive cars, and it makes respectable power for the fuel it uses. And how can you say taking off ramps way faster then most ppl would dare to in there cars not fast? Fast is a relative term and it all depends on what your comparing to.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by 5th 86

The great thing about the engine is you can bag on the engine hard and it barely uses any fuel compared to most performance/fun to drive cars, and it makes respectable power for the fuel it uses. And how can you say taking off ramps way faster then most ppl would dare to in there cars not fast? Fast is a relative term and it all depends on what your comparing to.

Fast, as in, am I going to get a ticket for speeding or reckless driving
And yes, yes you would, lol

[Draco-REX]

Just to steer us back on track while simultaneously tossing a cupfull of gas on the fire:

I own a STI with extensive suspension modifications and a BRZ, and I'm seriously considering selling the STI because I like driving the BRZ more. I used to think I tuned my STI into being a sharp handling car, but going from the BRZ to the STI, it just feels... dead.

[WolfpackS2k]

Yeah but I bet you'd prefer the STI's engine in the BRZ/s chassis

[kilrb]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

So you are the Eyes Candy kind ? It is a good thing that FRS look good, and they are very safe, because they are too slow!

I like a good looking car, but my Vette looked every bit as sweet as my BRZ; maybe even better. Looks don't count for too much when you're looking for a car that's fun to drive...

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Just to steer us back on track while simultaneously tossing a cupfull of gas on the fire:

I own a STI with extensive suspension modifications and a BRZ, and I'm seriously considering selling the STI because I like driving the BRZ more. I used to think I tuned my STI into being a sharp handling car, but going from the BRZ to the STI, it just feels... dead.

What did you expect from an econo sedan? Any sports car would be more fun / sharper to drive over a sedan. Not knocking on the STi, I've own 3 & an 05 is my street car. Fun in other ways, but nothing compared to a sports car. Just IMO.