who's afraid of buying the first Gen?

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by madfast

whatever dude. any sane person will read the above statement and know right away how objective you can be

PS: nice ninja edit to:

Thank you. I got too opinionated there for a moment and brought that fact back. Edited was done light years before you posted.

[PAImportTuner]

Sorry if you misinterpreted and I wasn't clear enough. I thought we are talking about a Niche sports car here. Then we should all be on the same page, just not the same paragraph. When I said that that I meant for the tuner/enthusiast market, not the mass market.

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Did you not say this?
"
How so the FRS/BRZ isn't a let them from the turbo4 crowd? Which is in fact the biggest crowd/market of them all.
"

That implies mass market when you say "biggest crowd/market of them all".

The brakes will be bigger and heavier, suspension likely will be too, possibly other bracing, etc.

The only car that was ever sold in a Turbo (or SC'd) and NA version where I would take the Turbo is the 2nd gen MR2. In every other case I'd take the NA version because they have always been lighter, more nimble and more raw.

That's what I like. I couldn't give two craps about numbers like HP, TQ, 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The brakes will be bigger and heavier, suspension likely will be too, possibly other bracing, etc.

The only car that was ever sold in a Turbo (or SC'd) and NA version where I would take the Turbo is the 2nd gen MR2. In every other case I'd take the NA version because they have always been lighter, more nimble and more raw. (and if I were building an autocross or race car from a 2nd gen MR2 it'd be a NA instead)

That's what I like. I couldn't give two craps about numbers like HP, TQ, 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc.

The bolded above about modifications are going to be done on the N/A model anyways. BC or Megan Coilover are just as heavy as stock, unless you get full aluminum body coilover$. Stoptech, Wilwood, Akebono add weight too. They will be the same weight or marginally less or more. Anything you can do to the N/A chassis wise can be done to the turbo model or STI for weight savings if need be.

N/A and Turbo model where you choose the turbo models:
Impreza vs WRX
Cobalt vs SS
Ion vs Redline
Mazdaspeeds
Genesis Coupes
this list could go on

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Impreza vs WRX - Neither.
Cobalt vs SS - Ok SS here, but the normal one is such a POS... I don't think it's even remotely similar to BRZ NA vs BRZ turbo
Ion vs Redline - Neither.. can't really
Mazdaspeeds - ? Between a Mazdaspeed turbo Miata and a Mazdaspeed turbo MS3? If you meant Mazda3 vs Speed 3 it would depend on what I wanted the car for.
Genesis Coupes - Neither, but if I had to, 3.8.
this list could go on

I should have been more clear too, I mean NA vs Turbo when both are considered sports cars. I'd go NB Miata over the Mazdaspeed Miata for example.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

LOL what? It's not a letdown for people that understand that n/a matches the character and intent of this car. The best selling car is still the Camry, which does not have a turbo 4, not sure what planet you're on.



Hand picked by virtually every publication on the planet? EVO magazine has never been known to pull punches. Are you calling them sellouts too?

Bottom line; what's the beef? You're hating on the car because they didn't make it to your personal specs? You think Toyota bought the media more than they bought all other brands? Don't be so naive.



Sheesh, really? If you're going to be emotional, at least have facts to back it up. Toyota IS the mass market seller in terms of cars. They ARE catering to the masses. Subaru's sales are in the noise; they need to listen to customers because they lack the market understanding to make confident decisions. Enthusiasts make up a very tiny percentage of car sales. Don't think your opinion counts for much, if anything.

Ryephile, you nailed it on the head. This is exactly the point. Thanks for putting it so clearly into words.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I should have been more clear too, I mean NA vs Turbo when both are considered sports cars. I'd go NB Miata over the Mazdaspeed Miata for example.

There is the difference in our tastes, but I can only slightly agree.
NC > MSNB > NB

If the NB had the NC 2.0MZR I'd say it takes the cake IF if all remained stock with the MSNB. If you add spend $1000 on both the MSNB wins.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The only car that was ever sold in a Turbo (or SC'd) and NA version where I would take the Turbo is the 2nd gen MR2. In every other case I'd take the NA version because they have always been lighter, more nimble and more raw. (and if I were building an autocross or race car from a 2nd gen MR2 it'd be a NA instead)

What about Supra?

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

What about Supra?

also
1st gen MR2 4AGE and 4AGZE
Skylines
Silvias

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

What about Supra?

I actually never liked either version, too big IMO and too much of a GT. Not my kind of car, so neither.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I actually never liked either version, too big IMO and too much of a GT. Not my kind of car, so neither.

Fair enough, but if you were given one of the two for free, I bet you would go with the turbo. I would even though I am happy with the NA BRZ.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

also
1st gen MR2 4AGE and 4AGZE
Skylines
Silvias

Considering we don't get two of those and the one skyline we do get now is only turbo..

For the MR2, MR2 NA over the SC anyday for a drivers car. That's one of the most noticable cars ever where the NA is insanely more fun to drive than the boosted version and I love MR2SCs even. I worked on and drove (and then sold) a friends quite a bit that had 25,000 miles on it. Great car, but he sold it for the same reason.. the NA is much much more fun (that and I helped him get close to 200% profit on the car).

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Fair enough, but if you were given one of the two for free, I bet you would go with the turbo. I would even though I am happy with the NA BRZ.

If given, then a Turbo because I could sell it for more to buy something I want. Or two somethings I want

[Dave-ROR]

I thought of another exception.. 2nd gen RX7. I'd go turbo II unless I found a nice GTUs. Although the two I owned were NA because they were going to be a race car project (one race car, one parts) but then I never had time or money to build it so I sold them both.

[JDLM]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Considering we don't get two of those and the one skyline we do get now is only turbo..

For the MR2, MR2 NA over the SC anyday for a drivers car. That's one of the most noticable cars ever where the NA is insanely more fun to drive than the boosted version and I love MR2SCs even. I worked on and drove (and then sold) a friends quite a bit that had 25,000 miles on it. Great car, but he sold it for the same reason.. the NA is much much more fun (that and I helped him get close to 200% profit on the car).

We don't get skylines in the US ..we got the GTR