FR-S vs RX-8 vs S2000 Review - Everyday Driver

[Superhatch]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Cayman would be my choice over ricer-wing cursed CR...

I agree, but the maintenance on a used 30-40K Cayman just scares me. I looked at a CR because it was about the same price as a BRZ Limited. I liked that it was a 'special edition' and had a shorter rack, stiffer rates, intentional aero (aside from the wing), but trying to find it in something other than baby blue or yellow was just tough.

[djdnz]

I thought it was a very fair review, and without considering the 'new' price, or the practicality I don't really blame them for picking the S2000. There's the obvious oversights when comparing a used car in value to a new car, but if you're looking at strictly buy in cost then I feel they did an admiral job of comparing the three.

Fun video to watch

[vagvoba]

There is an important reason why Honda stopped making high performance VTEC engines. That's gas economy and emissions. 18/24 MPG looks very bad compared to modern engines, like the one in the FRS/BRZ. Today you can find 300+ hp cars having better fuel economy than that (e.g. BMW's 3 liter V6 with 20/30 with manual gearbox).

Actually, if the S2000 was still sold in the US, it would be classified as a gas-guzzler. That's somewhat embarrassing, especially for a Honda.

In this decade if you want to make a small displacement naturally aspirated engine for a sports car with competitive MPG, then you end up with something like the FRS/BRZ's engine.

[Superhatch]

They still make a K24Z7 in the new Si, a 2.4L 22/31 mpg, 200/170 7100 rpm motor. It's closer to ours, but still gets good mileage. Previously the Si had the K20Z3 which was a 2.0L 21/29, 200/140, 8000 rpm motor.

I think when they went to the 2.4L 7100 rpm motor the age of the high performance Vtec engine died. But even the king of the 2.0L high revving engines the K20A made 20/30 mpg ratings in the Type Rs they came in. The ITR also pulled pretty good mpg numbers when they were released (old mpg system though).

I think Honda could still make a more efficient high revving VTEC engine, but they stopped focusing on that 5 years ago when the Type R died.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

I looked at a CR because it was about the same price as a BRZ Limited. I liked that it was a 'special edition' and had a shorter rack, stiffer rates...

AP1 has the same quick rack ratio as the CR, and relatively stiffer spring rates vs other AP2s (particularly rear springs and sways), and doesn't sit sky high off the ground like every stock CR I've seen does (what's up with that?). And it's a lot cheaper!

[civdaddy]

Originally Posted by vagvoba

There is an important reason why Honda stopped making high performance VTEC engines. That's gas economy and emissions. 18/24 MPG looks very bad compared to modern engines, like the one in the FRS/BRZ. Today you can find 300+ hp cars having better fuel economy than that (e.g. BMW's 3 liter V6 with 20/30 with manual gearbox).

Actually, if the S2000 was still sold in the US, it would be classified as a gas-guzzler. That's somewhat embarrassing, especially for a Honda.

In this decade if you want to make a small displacement naturally aspirated engine for a sports car with competitive MPG, then you end up with something like the FRS/BRZ's engine.

I know most owners get FAR better than the listed fuel economy when not even driving for mpgs too.

[thill]

Having quite a bit of time behind the wheel behind all three cars, I would rank them:
1. S2K
2. RX-8
3. FR-S

Now for practicality and everyday driving:
1. FR-S
2. S2K
3. RX-8

I live in Minnesota. If I lived in California the S2K would be #1.
I love the RX-8. But.. I have owned three RX-7's and the rotaries are high maintenance. I got well over 100k miles on all three of my RX-7's, but the key was keeping them propery cared for, and, it is a pain.

The FR-S/BRZ simply needs more horsepower (40-60, but I would take 75) and more torque. The S2K, for me, has the best shifter by far. The RX-8 has the best interaction with the road.. Man, if you could only combine the best attributes of all three car...

[thill]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Reliability...

We've already gone through 2 engines on the BRZ. Completely stock with no power adders. Not even an intake.

My S2k is at almost 120k, and I drive the S2k harder.

That is actually quite concerning. Even the rotary is more reliable than that if you maintain it properly.

What did you do to go through two engines? Overtweak the ECU?

[mike@vossen]

I love the S2000 but can't fit lol....

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

All the attention is because it's a new car. The novelty will wear out. I have no doubt the FR-S/BRZ will be a spec series. There will be tons of used & cheap FR-S/BRZ down the road.

If it goes the "poor-man's Corvette" route of popular sports value for money, I'm all for it. As long as its not as ubiquitous as the Mustang or Camaro...

If only they sold it in manual only, it would keep the numbers down in S2K sales territory (not necessarily a bad thing).

[SatinWhitePearl]

I've always been a fan of the s2k, liked the CR (sans the rear wing, and continue to kick myself for not stepping up to the plate.

This review was very well done and speaks volumes of the FR-S / BRZ, but the s2k is still king.

Again, great review!

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

If it goes the "poor-man's Corvette" route of popular sports value for money, I'm all for it. As long as its not as ubiquitous as the Mustang or Camaro...

If only they sold it in manual only, it would keep the numbers down in S2K sales territory (not necessarily a bad thing).

I don't think the BRZ/FR-S would survive if it came manual only.

[civdaddy]

What percentage of sales do you all think is manual and auto?

Heres my guess
65%auto
35%manual

[Linseal]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Reliability...

We've already gone through 2 engines on the BRZ. Completely stock with no power adders. Not even an intake.

My S2k is at almost 120k, and I drive the S2k harder.

16k in my FR-S, no issues what so ever yet.... *knocks on wood*