Trunk with pop up wing

[neutron256]

As a kit I think this would be pointless and cheesy. However as someone who likes to tinker with this kind of stuff, if I had made this as a one off for my own car then I'd be pretty proud.

[Rayme]

I'd like to see it done, especially if it looks very good. The boxster had a very small pop-up rear spoiler that was real stealth.

[EarlQHan]

They don't come from the factory with this technology because:
1. Price. It's expensive to make
2. Price. It's expensive to R&D
3. Design philosophy. The BRZ/FR-S/GT86 was meant to be a simple, lightweight, sporty RWD coupe that got back to the basics of driving dynamics. Something like this would spoil that philosophy.

That being said, without going into too much detail about the aerodynamic benefits (there are many), I will point out the difficulties to manufacturing something like this:
1. Aero R&D must be done
2. How do you want the system to be activated? Porsche-type systems are easy where they only deploy above a certain speed. McLaren-type systems are also easy where it is brake-pressure dependent (I believe). Bugatti uses a combination of the Porsche and McLaren system. Pagani-type systems depend on vehicle speed, brake pressure, and vehicle accelerations, which means you need a gyro and someone to code a microprocessor to monitor and activate these systems.
3. How is your system actuated? A servo motor is most likely, but then you need to figure out the draw from the electrical system and take that into account. You need to spec a servo that is fast, strong and accurate enough to do the job. If it is highly active like the Pagani system, you also have to take heat management into account so the servos don't burn out.
4. How and where do you package the bits? All those cars have engines in the rear, so there's still a usable trunk in the front. If you did this to the BRZ/FR-S/GT86, would you be okay with losing the trunk space?
5. You have to account for all the mechanical bits and making sure they're up to the job in the environment they see with repeated usage. You have to make sure they'll work in sun, rain, snow, salt, and wind.
6. You need to design a new trunk lid to accommodate the new system. The trunk usability is sacrificed, but the seals still need to be watertight and remain that way.
7. Weight is now increased and balance shifted rearward, that needs to be taken into account to see how the dynamics are changed.
8. Aero balance is also changed. See above.
9. Cost

And that's all I can think of at the top of my head. As you can see, to develop a good, comprehensive system. A lot of careful thought and planning is required. Will there be substantial benefits? In terms of performance, I think so, as active aero affects lap times so much it's still banned in most forms of racing. However, what are you willing to give up for a system like this?

[Rayme]

Originally Posted by EarlQHan

They don't come from the factory with this technology because:
1. Price. It's expensive to make
2. Price. It's expensive to R&D
3. Design philosophy. The BRZ/FR-S/GT86 was meant to be a simple, lightweight, sporty RWD coupe that got back to the basics of driving dynamics. Something like this would spoil that philosophy.

That being said, without going into too much detail about the aerodynamic benefits (there are many), I will point out the difficulties to manufacturing something like this:
1. Aero R&D must be done
2. How do you want the system to be activated? Porsche-type systems are easy where they only deploy above a certain speed. McLaren-type systems are also easy where it is brake-pressure dependent (I believe). Bugatti uses a combination of the Porsche and McLaren system. Pagani-type systems depend on vehicle speed, brake pressure, and vehicle accelerations, which means you need a gyro and someone to code a microprocessor to monitor and activate these systems.
3. How is your system actuated? A servo motor is most likely, but then you need to figure out the draw from the electrical system and take that into account. You need to spec a servo that is fast, strong and accurate enough to do the job. If it is highly active like the Pagani system, you also have to take heat management into account so the servos don't burn out.
4. How and where do you package the bits? All those cars have engines in the rear, so there's still a usable trunk in the front. If you did this to the BRZ/FR-S/GT86, would you be okay with losing the trunk space?
5. You have to account for all the mechanical bits and making sure they're up to the job in the environment they see with repeated usage. You have to make sure they'll work in sun, rain, snow, salt, and wind.
6. You need to design a new trunk lid to accommodate the new system. The trunk usability is sacrificed, but the seals still need to be watertight and remain that way.
7. Weight is now increased and balance shifted rearward, that needs to be taken into account to see how the dynamics are changed.
8. Aero balance is also changed. See above.
9. Cost

And that's all I can think of at the top of my head. As you can see, to develop a good, comprehensive system. A lot of careful thought and planning is required. Will there be substantial benefits? In terms of performance, I think so, as active aero affects lap times so much it's still banned in most forms of racing. However, what are you willing to give up for a system like this?

If I had a nice garage and a spare trunk and a duckbill spoiler, sounds like something that could be done easily with an arduino and some standard parts...and patience.

[EarlQHan]

Originally Posted by ottopilot

If I had a nice garage and a spare trunk and a duckbill spoiler, sounds like something that could be done easily with an arduino and some standard parts...and patience.

That's just for the control system. How would you design your feedback loop? What about all the other aspects? Not trying to say it's impossible. Just trying to be thorough.

[mrk1]

I think the factory LTD spoiler popping up under braking would be sweet. Im no software programmer but I have some ideas how the hardware side could work. Would probably have to sacrifice a trunk lid in R&D.

The wing could be programmed to only lift when the car is above a certain speed and a brake pressure threshold is reached.

I would paint something funny on the underside, only to be seen while braking.

But yes our cars unless with major FI are probably not fast enough to justify it. However most things we do to our cars are just what we think is cool anyway.

[usptwins]

Question one. Can you give up all that trunk space and have a completely useless folding back seats for about $1000+ dollars for a "look"?
Question two. How much do you plan on spending to make this actually work right. With all the sensors, motors, parts and development?
Question three. Do you actually plan on using this for what it was developed for in the first place? Do you road race, do you pull excessive corner g's that you need this, do you plan on needing a wing to help you stop because your brakes aren't good enough?

Sum. I guarantee you that no one will get this produced in large enough quantity to even think about selling this to the public. It has no use for us, it costs wayyy more than what you would think it does, and im pretty sure you nor anyone else would want all this trouble installing it or having to give up their back cargo area.

I understand you think its cool, but if you want this, go buy a used Chrystler Crossfire. They have one. Or find a wrecked one and salvage that one. Sorry man, just don't see how this would be interesting for any of us.

[n2oinferno]

I wonder how the VW Beetle packaged it, being at the top of the rear window.

[Books]

I like the idea of it. It's pretty cool. But all I can think about is the added weight and possibly reduced trunk space. Not to mention it's another thing that can break.

[WingsofWar]

I like the idea, but in the end, its about functionality which costs $$$.

[projectXTR]

Oh crap, seems like not too many of you guys figured out I wasn't really serious when writing this topic

Anyway even if I was serious, a spoiler (be it a fixed one or a pop up one like I suggested) has it's function even on a low powered car like ours.

I think we all have felt already that when you go really fast the car starts to feel a tad too light on its feet.
Can't really tell how big the impact of wider wheels and lowering the car would be as I still have to make those changes to my car. But plain stock it could use some more downforce -imho-.

Hypothetically speaking a system like it wouldn't necessarily have to be heavy nor should it take that much cargo space.(realised that when I opened the trunk earlier today,there's plenty of space right under the trunk lid).


Ah well, let this topic rest and let's enjoy our cars some more !

[RedLeader]

Just my .02:

keep it simple, 2 position so you can use a relatively simple solenoid, then it's just a matter of deciding when to power the system to switch said solenoid to the second position. Perhaps just use it as an angle of attack position change for an existing spoiler, say high angle for low speed stuff and low angle for higher speed stuff. that would make it more feasible, lighter weight, and MUCH easier to control.

[Skyhound]

Wow, when did this forum become filled with jerks and haters? Yeeeesh. O_o

If you weren't going to track your car and wanted it just a show car or just for that "wow" factor, it would not be that difficult to make a deployable wing. I had a friend make his own using old window motors, it's just a matter of chopping up the trunk and wiring the whole thing. You wouldn't even need the sensors to have it deploy at a certain speed, just be lazy and have a switch or a button so you can deploy whenever you wanna look cool.

[voyager2285]

Originally Posted by Skurj

Mebbe a system to take the current BRZ limited spoiler and raise it at speed would be cool... functional? I have no clue..

I like that idea!