Scion Drops the ball...

[2fast4you]

Originally Posted by Ak1m0to

Why do you think we never got a S15, any previous GTR besides the current one, or why Honda says the SI is good enough and we don't get any other Type-Rs.

Low sales potential, high insurance costs, safety, crash, and emissions standards in the U.S... that's why we didn't get those cars. With U.S., Europe, Japan, and Korea merging their auto safety and emissions standards in order to further globalize sales and keep their respective auto manufactures in business, you're starting to see more cars make it to the U.S. The only manufacturer that I know that is actively holding back a hot car is VW with the Scirocco because they know it would destroy GTI (read= higher profit) sales.

For those that still don't understand why Toyota has equipped their US-spec 86 the way they have: Toyota and Subaru showed their highest spec cars and will charge accordingly for them. In reality, Subaru will produce more of the low to mid spec (Scion-type) models than they will high spec. It's a simple matter of economics: Japan and many countries in Europe are hurting as bad or worse than the U.S.; buyers in those countries will find a way to reduce out-of-the-door costs to offset higher taxes and fuel costs by not ordering the high-spec model. Scion knows that they'll probably move 25,000-30,000 units per model year at best (the tC sales about 40,000) and 10% of buyers will want those all of those features... that's what the Release Series is for. Subaru will probably move 15,000-20,000 units in the U.S. with 6,000 of them being the "Limited" high spec. So, on the low-end of the sales estimate with 40,000 U.S. units, 8500 or 21% will be high-spec... I don't see those numbers being much different in Europe and Japan.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

You want those things? Buy a BRZ Limited. It'll be 27k for all the things you're looking for. The base BRZ comes with manual climate control and a key cylinder as well.

US BRZ base

If you notice, the BRZ has been talked about as being offered as premium and limited. The pic there you posted is a testing prototype, check out the camo on the body (hint, look at the mirror). I doubt Subaru is going to offer a "base" spec as scion is, and that probably was just there to make up numbers.

Originally Posted by Ak1m0to

Get the Subaru, sorry, I'm brand loyal and trust Toyota reliability more.

If it makes you feel better, you can pick some Toyots/Scion decal and stick em on.... it's the same car. Whether you buy one or the other, the money is going the same place.

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

The thing is, if the FRS has a barebones option that is $4k cheaper, then I can add all those add-ons that I want instead of getting the limited package which has things I don't need. Subaru would be screwed if this is the case (would still get Subaru fanboys). For both of these cars to survive against each other, they really need to target different aspects of the market; Scion stripped down version and Subaru then one with all the bells and whistles. If you can get all those bells and whistles added onto the Scion (which would have a lower starting price) and only pick exactly what you want, then what point does the Subaru serve in the market?

This is spot on.
No way Scion offers everything Subaru will have as options to thier base model. Scion is going to offer base model with different add ons, but those add ons will never fully match what will be offered by Subaru.

FRS will serve low to mid market and BRZ will serve mid to high market.

Pretty simple:
If you like dual climate controls and chrome dash then you are looking at a BRZ,
If you want a bare bones sweet track ride, your looking at FRS
If you want all the interior goodies of the BRZ with the FRS front end, your looking at major cost to switch front ends along with a brand new paint job.

This back and forth on the same subject seems preety pointless since we do not have all the facts.

Why don't we put the options discussion in "park" until we have the official word, or at least a very good leak.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

This is spot on.
No way Scion offers everything Subaru will have as options to thier base model. Scion is going to offer base model with different add ons, but those add ons will never fully match what will be offered by Subaru.

FRS will serve low to mid market and BRZ will serve mid to high market.

Pretty simple:
If you like dual climate controls and chrome dash then you are looking at a BRZ,
If you want a bare bones sweet track ride, your looking at FRS
If you want all the interior goodies of the BRZ with the FRS front end, your looking at major cost to switch front ends along with a brand new paint job.

This back and forth on the same subject seems preety pointless since we do not have all the facts.

Why don't we put the options discussion in "park" until we have the official word, or at least a very good leak.

Scion might use package, which includes a bunch of stuff instead of trim level. like Subie and Toyota.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Ak1m0to

Get the Subaru, sorry, I'm brand loyal and trust Toyota reliability more.

You do realize that the Toyota/Scion is made by Subaru right? Toyota reliability has absolutely nothing to do with the FR-S/GT86/BRZ.

Brand loyalty is fine I guess.. Contrary to my sig I'm not brand loyal to anyone. I'll pick the car that suits me best regardless of brand.

[Dave-ROR]

Can we just close all these topics until the US Spec details are released? lol

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Can we just close all these topics until the US Spec details are released? lol

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

You do realize that the Toyota/Scion is made by Subaru right? Toyota reliability has absolutely nothing to do with the FR-S/GT86/BRZ.

This. lol So many people talking about Toyota reliability fail to realize the Subaru and Toyota will have the same level of reliability.

[Mari0]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

This. lol So many people talking about Toyota reliability fail to realize the Subaru and Toyota will have the same level of reliability.

Nah, you don't get it! Just like stickers bring +hp, just slapping a particular brand's logo on the same car changes its +endurance...

[ryude]

It changes who you talk to/who services your car when you bring it to a dealer. In some ways, that means more than who built the car.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by ryude

It changes who you talk to/who services your car when you bring it to a dealer. In some ways, that means more than who built the car.

Huh? Come again? So when JD Power does their dependability rankings they make sure to check each car dealership to see how good the technicians are? lol Dude, a car that is dependable should never even need to see the shop except for oil changes and tire rotations/replacements (if you don't feel like doing those yourself). The service department has no influence on the dependability of the vehicle. Just how inept they are.

[Spaceywilly]

The main things that are pushing me towards the Subaru Premium over the FRS at this point are the dashboard plastics and the headlights. The dash on the FRS looks like really cheap hard plastic, and that seems to fit in with Scion's other offerings (although I haven't been in a new tC). If it really is just $24k for the BRZ premium that seems like a good deal even if it is just the interior, headlights, and radio that are different from the FRS. Obviously it is cheap to swap in the radio but you're pretty much stuck with the headlights and dash unless you want to spend a ton and rip apart your car to replace it (and at that point why not just get the BRZ). So you are pretty much stuck with the crappy plastic dash and chromed out headlights with the FRS.

Obviously this is all just speculation based on the photos we've seen. It's really impossible to say which I'll buy without knowing the official price and options, and sitting in both of them.

[ryun84]

Originally Posted by ryude

It changes who you talk to/who services your car when you bring it to a dealer. In some ways, that means more than who built the car.

This would be true if there was clear evidence that one car brand has much worse mechanics/service than the other, but that's not the case. It's pretty much the luck of the draw. There will be both good and bad service reps in every car make. Heck, maybe even both good and bad service mechanics in the SAME dealership service department, depending on which person you get.

[xc]

i have decided to wait untill the 2nd or 3rd year to buy the car. maybe by then they have made some few changes to the front bumper lights ( like removing the signal lights, and puts them only on the head lights)....

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Huh? Come again? So when JD Power does their dependability rankings they make sure to check each car dealership to see how good the technicians are? lol Dude, a car that is dependable should never even need to see the shop except for oil changes and tire rotations/replacements (if you don't feel like doing those yourself). The service department has no influence on the dependability of the vehicle. Just how inept they are.

This.

Now when it does come to repairs, I personally feel that Subaru dealerships will be a bit more experienced with the specifics of this platform, but in the end it's just a car. All cars work basically the same way so anyone who is competent will be able to work on them. In the end though, any service department can have mororns, research your local dealers service department before making the decision where it should go (warranty and non warranty, unless you only have one Scion (if you buy an FR-S) or one Subaru (if you buy a BRZ) dealership I guess).

Of the three Subaru dealerships around here there is one that I would really trust, one that I'd be iffy on and one that I would never take my car to. I've never looked into Scion so I'm not sure which local dealers are good there.