Motortrend: 1989 BMW E30 M3 vs 2013 Scion FR-S vs 2013 Volkswagen GTI!

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by nonicname

conclusion the GTI is a car the FRS is a toy.
I love my GTI and I still want an frs but as a second car which I can't afford, so I'm keeping my GTI.

Conclusion: GTI is a glorified grocery getter, the FRS is a world class sports car.

[kaybee123]

Like everyone said.... There's 10k difference between the cars!
Even with a 10k difference in the cars, a 'pro' still managed to drive the FRS faster around the track. (Not these guys)

Imagine you changed the tires (which have said to reduce times by 2-4 seconds) and you would immediately have a new winner, even for the novice drivers.
Never mind, with 10k, you can do so much more than just change the tires.

That said, the GTI is a great car! For a sensible and fun daily driver, I'd love to have it. The FRS isn't as practical, but I love it.

[mkiisupra]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Aren't the old straight 4 Bimmers as a whole much cheaper to maintain and more reliable than the straight 6's? I never saw any numbers so I never knew for a fact.

Originally Posted by Turbowned

E30's are cheap as $#!t to fix. M3 would be expensive on the bodywork side, sure, but parts are super-cheap. It definitely helps to buy one that's all up-to-date, though.

The E30 M3 4 is a different beast, iirc. Not the regular 4 (which is easy to work on, I hear) This engine is highly strung, and quite expensive to replace.

Please, E30M3 owners that have popped up: Is this engine in the M3 'easy or hard' to work on? What was the price you paid for yours and when? What number would you sell yours for now (what number have you said 'no' to)?

The E30 M3 is one of the latest, late model cars to make it to collector status. It has already hit the nadir of depreciation and is only climbing.

If they stopped production of the FR-S/BRZ today, we may be able to enjoy the same status in 20 years. Not likely to happen.

I'll take the M3 now, hold on, use it for DD, and take it to shows, and sell it for both of the others in 5 years.

Eric G

[PERRIN_Chris]

I've owned an E30 M3 since 2000, I wouldn't say the engine isn't especially hard to work on. I wouldn't really like to have to do a timing chain, but it's not bad.

I got my car for $11K back in 2000 with 125,000 miles. My car isn't worth that much now, since it has 195,000 miles, I don't think I'd be able to get more than $15,000 for it.

If you'd really want to make money on it, I wouldn't DD it. The more miles it has, the less it'll be worth, plus the E30 M3 isn't super cheap to maintain like normal E30s.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

E30's are cheap as $#!t to fix. M3 would be expensive on the bodywork side, sure, but parts are super-cheap. It definitely helps to buy one that's all up-to-date, though.

Dunno. When I looked at getting a 318ti, I looked at buying some used OEM seats. They were like a grand for the front two. Maybe the e30 is a whole other story, but I doubt it. For the time being, I'm done with BMW. Too many headaches.

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by Connoisseur

Conclusion: GTI is a glorified grocery getter, the FRS is a world class sports car.

And soon to built in Mexico.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...uilt-in-mexico

Toyota had so many quality issues with their Tijuana plant they just shut it down and moved production to San Antonio.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by torqdork

And soon to built in Mexico.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...uilt-in-mexico

Toyota had so many quality issues with their Tijuana plant they just shut it down and moved production to San Antonio.

That is sad, for VW fans. Don't a lot of Golf and GTI owners do the stance/hellaflush/hellafuckedup shit anyway? That fits perfectly since they want to be lowriders and constantly curb rash their bodykits.

[Turbowned]

I have done 4 wheel bearings, brakes, oil pan, timing cover gaskets, electric fan, plugs, fuel filter, control arms, sway bar endlinks, bushings, tires, shocks/struts and a few other things I'm forgetting for maybe a couple grand over the past few months, doing the labor myself. The only big ticket items I'm going to run into are the timing chain (~$700 for parts) and the rear diff (used ones go for ~$350). This is a '91 318is 4cyl, a.k.a. "poor man's M3".

[CyberFormula]

Originally Posted by polarstorm

I believe his point is that its got the econobox stigma which is hard to shake.. from far away if you squint, it actually does look like a MINI van.

The FRS a head turner, heck I even get girls waving.. this is unreal.. that's never happened on my civic.. and I don't know them.. that alone defines the better car, because let's face it, we're not going to track the car on regular roads. Oh yeah and its more affordable (part of my decision point).

For me its practical enough, I can carry all my surf gear, and I can carry all my kids (but not both at the same time, I have a minivan for that).

Funny how my buddies with Exige S, GTR, Evos, M3 or S5 don't get any waves from girls. They must not be better cars.

Or they dont' worry about the waves, and just care about the cars.

[Steve]

GTI gets to the grocery store faster

/thread

[Grip Ronin]

if he is saying fwd is better then rwd he is jus an idiot

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by Grip Ronin

if he is saying fwd is better then rwd he is jus an idiot

He's saying exactly that.

[Grip Ronin]

Originally Posted by Connoisseur

He's saying exactly that.

then he is quite an idiot. i track a 400 whp turbo civic and the frs and the frs is just way more fun. i know he cant think a 200 crank hp vw is fun

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by Grip Ronin

then he is quite an idiot. i track a 400 whp turbo civic and the frs and the frs is just way more fun. i know he cant think a 200 crank hp vw is fun

Have you considered tracking a 400hp FRS? Some dude who owns Crawford performance has an article in a R&T mag I have that says he has a 400hp BRZ that uses a turbo from the JDM STI to achieve that performance.