18x9.5 +45 (square) VS 18x9.5 +35 Front 18x8.5 +40 Rear (staggered)

[jshadeck]

"9.5 square" does not indicate tread width, only rim width. My 9.5 square setup came with 235 tires, and i can (for my preference) run anything from a 225-275 on these rims. Saying "9.5 square might make you slower" is as incorrect as all the statements you are trying to argue with. Even keeping the stock rims, the choice of tire size and compound can make the car faster or slower, so its not necessarily rim dependent at all. Same for staggered, im sure if you wanted the staggered rim for fitment reasons (ie clearing the front springs w out poking so much), if you run a 8.5/9.5 staggered, but run 235 square tires, the staggered would hardly be noticeable to the performance.

[Funky Fresh]

Originally Posted by raul

what kind of power levels are you running? 9.5 square all around might make you slower at stock or slightly above stock power levels, and you may lose some steering feel.

I am running stock at the moment... I am going to get the AVO Turbo kit installed mid to late this year... So I want to get my rims right the first time. I don't want to get a set of rims now only to find out that a "squared" or "Staggered" set is better for Track (with a turbo)

Originally Posted by jshadeck

"9.5 square" does not indicate tread width, only rim width. My 9.5 square setup came with 235 tires, and i can (for my preference) run anything from a 225-275 on these rims. Saying "9.5 square might make you slower" is as incorrect as all the statements you are trying to argue with. Even keeping the stock rims, the choice of tire size and compound can make the car faster or slower, so its not necessarily rim dependent at all. Same for staggered, im sure if you wanted the staggered rim for fitment reasons (ie clearing the front springs w out poking so much), if you run a 8.5/9.5 staggered, but run 235 square tires, the staggered would hardly be noticeable to the performance.

You do have a point... But for this thread lets just assume 9.5 all around will have the same diameter tires and 8.5/9.5 will have a staggered diameter. I have to sets of rims in mind and one of the sets comes in a staggered set specially made for the 86/BRZ/FRS.

[raul]

Originally Posted by jshadeck

"9.5 square" does not indicate tread width, only rim width. My 9.5 square setup came with 235 tires, and i can (for my preference) run anything from a 225-275 on these rims. Saying "9.5 square might make you slower" is as incorrect as all the statements you are trying to argue with. Even keeping the stock rims, the choice of tire size and compound can make the car faster or slower, so its not necessarily rim dependent at all. Same for staggered, im sure if you wanted the staggered rim for fitment reasons (ie clearing the front springs w out poking so much), if you run a 8.5/9.5 staggered, but run 235 square tires, the staggered would hardly be noticeable to the performance.

Well, I'm not assigning any number to my statement, therefore it can't really be correct/incorrect. What I'm saying is that with a 9.5 wide wheel, there's a possibility the total wheel/tire weight is going to be heavier than stock, thus reducing acceleration. Grip levels will increase for sure, but going too heavy might make you slower overall than say, 8.5 wide wheel square with equal rubber.

Originally Posted by Funky Fresh

for this thread lets just assume 9.5 all around will have the same diameter tires and 8.5/9.5 will have a staggered diameter. I have to sets of rims in mind and one of the sets comes in a staggered set specially made for the 86/BRZ/FRS.

If that's the case then I would suggest staying square. If you're coming into a corner hot and slam on the brakes, having more traction in the front will improve turn in and make you less prone to understeering. A staggered setup would be more useful in a drag racing situation, when you're simply adding traction in the back, where you need it. I track my car and I plan to go 8-8.5 wide square with 245 rubber all around.

[Funky Fresh]

Originally Posted by raul

Well, I'm not assigning any number to my statement, therefore it can't really be correct/incorrect. What I'm saying is that with a 9.5 wide wheel, there's a possibility the total wheel/tire weight is going to be heavier than stock, thus reducing acceleration. Grip levels will increase for sure, but going too heavy might make you slower overall than say, 8.5 wide wheel square with equal rubber.

You also have a point... But lets also assume for this thread that the rims and tires will be lighter than stock... because I do have some light rims in mind

[raul]

Originally Posted by Funky Fresh

You also have a point... But lets also assume for this thread that the rims and tires will be lighter than stock... because I do have some light rims in mind

Tire weight is a big factor too. If you lose 2 pounds per wheel, but gain 3 pounds per tire, you'll still be heavier overall. Check your tire selections as well before you pull the trigger. The more weight is concentrated in the outer area of the wheel, the more torque is required to spin them. For example, if you have an 18 pound wheel and 23 pound tire, vs a 19 pound wheel and 21 pound tire, the latter would probably be faster assuming the sizes and compounds are similar.

[Funky Fresh]

Originally Posted by raul

Tire weight is a big factor too. If you lose 2 pounds per wheel, but gain 3 pounds per tire, you'll still be heavier overall. Check your tire selections as well before you pull the trigger.

I have all of these factors in mind, that is not the point of this thread... I am only trying to find out if there is a big difference between "Squared" or "Staggered" assuming wheels and tires where lighter than stock.

[raul]

Originally Posted by Funky Fresh

I have all of these factors in mind, that is not the point of this thread... I am only trying to find out if there is a big difference between "Squared" or "Staggered" assuming wheels and tires where lighter than stock.

Ok then, squared will offer better braking, turn-in, ability to rotate, and slightly less steering feel. Staggered will offer style and slightly better steering feel.

[jshadeck]

Why not stop assuming al together, and provide the wheel weights as thats one of the major variables currently in this discussion. I was simply stating that if you really want the staggered rims (style/appearance/etc) you have the option to run the exact same tires you would run on the square rim setup.

IE: (assume all rims are same weight and all tires are same weight until OP can provide)

18x8.5 235 tire
18x9.5 265 tire

Or

18x8.5 235 tire
18x9.5 235 tire

Or

18x9.5 235 tire
18x9.5 235 tire

Or

18x9.5 235 tire
18x9.5 265 tire

[raul]

Originally Posted by jshadeck

Why not stop assuming al together, and provide the wheel weights as thats one of the major variables currently in this discussion.

In other words, help us help you. Give us some specifics.

[Funky Fresh]

Originally Posted by jshadeck

Why not stop assuming al together, and provide the wheel weights as thats one of the major variables currently in this discussion. I was simply stating that if you really want the staggered rims (style/appearance/etc) you have the option to run the exact same tires you would run on the square rim setup.

IE: (assume all rims are same weight and all tires are same weight until OP can provide)

18x8.5 235 tire
18x9.5 265 tire

Or

18x8.5 235 tire
18x9.5 235 tire

Or

18x9.5 235 tire
18x9.5 235 tire

Or

18x9.5 235 tire
18x9.5 265 tire

Thanks makes sense...

I don't know tire weights yet... Still looking around because I needed to work out if I was going to go squared or staggered first.

My wheel options are...

Volk TE37sl
18x9.5 +45 (alround)

Or

Volk TE37sl Black Edition
18x8.5 +38 (Front) 18x9.5 +40 (Rear)

The weight on the 18x9.5's are 18.3lbs

[raul]

What tire sizes are you considering?

[Funky Fresh]

Originally Posted by raul

What tire sizes are you considering?

Size wise...

18x9.5 with 245/35 tires for the squared

And

18x8.5 with 235/?? Front (not sure of hight yet)
18x9.5 with 265/?? Rear (not sure of hight yet)

[raul]

Originally Posted by Funky Fresh

Size wise...

18x9.5 with 245/35 tires for the squared

And

18x8.5 with 235/?? Front (not sure of hight yet)
18x9.5 with 265/?? Rear (not sure of hight yet)

The 245s will weigh around 22-23 pounds so you'll end up pretty similar to stock weight wise, with a bigger contact patch. The 265s are 25lbs+ and would make you heavier overall. You'll accelerate slower with those even if you have more traction in the back.

[Funky Fresh]

Originally Posted by raul

The 245s will weigh around 22-23 pounds so you'll end up pretty similar to stock weight wise, with a bigger contact patch. The 265s are 25lbs+ and would make you heavier overall. You'll accelerate slower with those even if you have more traction in the back.

I have had a look at the contact patch side of things and the 245/35's has a 0.1 inch increase which is only 0.5% increase overall.

So in saying that to keep to the weight down I think squared set up is the way to go