Product testing. What would you guys like to see CSG test?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

I would love to see a comparison and test of a variety of similarly sized front swaybars from different manufacturers (Strano, Perrin, Whiteline, Cusco, etc).

Swaybars are a fine tuning tool. They're used to make small adjustments, and tie the left and right suspension together. Generally, you want to tune in this order

Dampers/Springs -> Sways (to fine tune effective spring rates) -> alignment -> tire pressure

That is listed roughly in the order of significance.

I understand why sways are so popular: they're relatively inexpensive (many options for a few hundred bucks), and can have a large effect on how the car handles, but we'd like to get our dampers and springs completely dialed in before using sways. We'll be revisiting this at some point

[RYU]

If you guys ever go FI I have a high capacity radiator for you to test.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by RYU

If you guys ever go FI I have a high capacity radiator for you to test.

PM me details please

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

What are the trade offs?

Winter and bad weather in general, all of that gets into the engine bay, leaves, dust, dirt debris, moisture, salt, rain etc.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Swaybars are a fine tuning tool. They're used to make small adjustments, and tie the left and right suspension together. Generally, you want to tune in this order

Dampers/Springs -> Sways (to fine tune effective spring rates) -> alignment -> tire pressure

That is listed roughly in the order of significance.

I understand why sways are so popular: they're relatively inexpensive (many options for a few hundred bucks), and can have a large effect on how the car handles, but we'd like to get our dampers and springs completely dialed in before using sways. We'll be revisiting this at some point

I agree with you, just a heads up. For street and autox the following is the most trans-formative for next to no cost, I have found I can out run many STX guys:

Driver > Tires > Alignment > Front ARB

Just keep that in mind when you are doing your helpful threads.
You are by far one of the more helpful people on the forum.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Winter and bad weather in general, all of that gets into the engine bay, leaves, dust, dirt debris, moisture, salt, rain etc.



I agree with you, just a heads up. For street and autox the following is the most trans-formative for next to no cost, I have found I can out run many STX guys:

Driver > Tires > Alignment > Front ARB

Just keep that in mind when you are doing your helpful threads.
You are by far one of the more helpful people on the forum.

Eep. My AutoX knowledge is limited to the friends I have that AutoX regularly, but I agree that the priority order is changed for different circumstances, and Sways are easily the best bang for the buck when you're trying to shift load front/rear!

The original order I posted is a "ideal" case where you're not limited/restricted on modifications by classing and/or budget. Your order is far more realistic

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I can arrange for something... send me a PM. @SkullWorks: you mind if I disclose?

You can tell @Dave-ROR, I'll get a couple shots of the chicken fried steak for you while I'm out there today for rain boot testing

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by robispec

Aggreed...my best laps on the On the 245s Are the fifth and sixth laps.

'

Similarly, we have found that the 255s would keep getting faster and faster throughout the session - 7th/8th laps seemed to be fastest...and then we got the checker.

[Dezoris]

Can you do a review of which fast food cup design is most stable during track days?

[celica73]

Does a strut brace (or any of the many other superfluous braces) make for quicker lap times (I'd guess not - not on a modern car).

Does an under-drive/light weight pulley make the car lap any faster? (I believe the theory, but not so much the real world application)

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge

'

Similarly, we have found that the 255s would keep getting faster and faster throughout the session - 7th/8th laps seemed to be fastest...and then we got the checker.

Since we keep talking about tires here can we clear some things up? First off, what type of tires and what are their intended heat ranges. This will help folks out when some say they were fastest on a skinnier tire or fastest on a fatter tire... or they were fastest but briefly or "getting faster over time".

Some are designed to operate at their peak without heat (but "drop off"), while others are like driving on ice until they're in excess of 180F (R-Comps).

Street tires (Star Spec, Azenis): Grippy when cold, fall off when hot (typically above 160F).
Road Race R-Comps (R6/C51): Very little grip when cold, maximum grip when hot (between 180-220F) and don't fall off until that is exceeded or the number heat cycles is exceeded.
R-Comp Autocross (A6/C71): R-comp that is designed with maximum grip at low temps, for short durations (specifically auto-crossing).

So GTM, what were those 255's in regards to their compound? Someone earlier (I think D1cker) said he was fastest on the 225's but briefly and I surmise he was not on an R-comp but instead a street tire.

It is possible, GTM that if your 255 was a street compound that you were "over-tired" until they began to get hot which then you started to see improved lap times or is that the 255 in the compound you were using took 7-8 laps to reach peak grip and ideal operating temp?

Thank you for sharing.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

PM me details please

sent

:happy0180:

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Can you do a review of which fast food cup design is most stable during track days?

I've tested both McDonalds and Starbucks cups in the center cup holder. Both had sufficient stability and build quality to survive on-track sessions with around a 2/3 fill.

Additional testing will be performed upon donation of fresh iced coffee; credit will be given to the donor.

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Since we keep talking about tires here can we clear some things up? First off, what type of tires and what are their intended heat ranges. This will help folks out when some say they were fastest on a skinnier tire or fastest on a fatter tire... or they were fastest but briefly or "getting faster over time".

Some are designed to operate at their peak without heat (but "drop off"), while others are like driving on ice until they're in excess of 180F (R-Comps).

Street tires (Star Spec, Azenis): Grippy when cold, fall off when hot (typically above 160F).
Road Race R-Comps (R6/C51): Very little grip when cold, maximum grip when hot (between 180-220F) and don't fall off until that is exceeded or the number heat cycles is exceeded.
R-Comp Autocross (A6/C71): R-comp that is designed with maximum grip at low temps, for short durations (specifically auto-crossing).

So GTM, what were those 255's in regards to their compound? Someone earlier (I think D1cker) said he was fastest on the 225's but briefly and I surmise he was not on an R-comp but instead a street tire.

It is possible, GTM that if your 255 was a street compound that you were "over-tired" until they began to get hot which then you started to see improved lap times or is that the 255 in the compound you were using took 7-8 laps to reach peak grip and ideal operating temp?

Thank you for sharing.

Our 255s are RE-11A street tires that keep getting more heat in them throughout the session since we are "over-tired" to some people. I have no clue what HPDE students don't say out a whole session, so for these types of people, I am personally recommending a larger tire such as a 255/245 for HPDE students due to it's larger heat capacity. It might not be as fast, but in an HPDE environment, we shouldn't be worried about lap times at all. It was easy to drive from lap 1 and didn't get greasy. I found it to be most consistent and lead to the smallest delta between lap times this past weekend.

Our 225 A6s fell off after 4 or 5 laps in 60 degree weather - they were quite old and had many track records on them in TTC and TTB trim. Even after a rolling cool down lap, all subsequent fast laps were not as fast as lap 3/4. It was impossible to bring them back down to a good temp without bringing the car off the track (which is to be expected).

For a newer, less experienced driver, I'd say it's better to over tire and be able to drive consistent, safe, fast laps, lap after lap, so I'd go with a 245 or 255.

For more experienced drivers that are okay with a looser car, a 225 or 235 may be the way to go because you'll put more of an emphasis on lap times.

We will be testing the 225 vs 255 theory out in the next few weeks using brand new Bridgestone RE-11A and running them in back to back sessions at Gingerman.

[rice_classic]

Thank you. BTW I mean my last question to begin with "IS IT" instead of "IT IS". The interrogative was the intention.

Nonetheless thanks for the info and clarity. I like your approach to tire recommendation for HPDE regarding heat capacity/safety.