Another annoying what spring to buy question

[raul]

Originally Posted by fender9530

Why not Swift springs? I believe they're lower than RCE but not too low.

+1 for RCE though since I just installed mine.

0.8" for RCE, 1" for swifts. I'll be going with Swifts when the time comes due to spring rates. I like oversteer. RCEs are more neutral.

[forzajuve]

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

Okay friends, I finally got my tax return money and I need to ditch my 4x4 ride height... But I'm torn between the Eibach Pro Kit and the Eibach Sportlines. Now, before anyone yells at me to use the search, I've been searching for the past week or so but I can't get a clear answer to my question.

Is the 1.4" drop "too much" to provide good handling? The spring rates are a bit stiffer on the Sportlines and I love the idea of that much of a drop, but I've been reading a lot of conflicting things about the FRS not being able to handle that kind of drop without hurting the handling.

So basically, do the Sportlines offer better handling than the Pro Kit because they have stiffer rates, or does the bigger drop make them more of a "form over function" kind of deal?

Thanks so much!

Are you planning on driving track or auto cross?
If so, you might want to lean towards coil-overs.

If you only plan on having a more aggressive/tight street driving experience, like through back roads and such I would recommend the the pro kit. I had a similar thread to yours and from what I have read the pro kit is only about a 1 inch drop so it doesn't put to much added stress to the stock shocks. However, if you drop it more than 1 inch, say 1.5-2 inches (or more) you are going to need to replace your shocks as well if you do not do so right off the bat.

Plus the car is so low that a minimal 1 inch drop should be more than enough. I am pretty sure the car sits at 4.9 inches off the ground stock

[shawnperolis]

Like I said, I want a normal daily that is lower and is less oversteer-y. I plan on replacing shocks later, after my OEMs die out. They are so new that it would be silly to waste what life they have left in them. I really just want to know if the control arms and other suspension components can handle this 1.4" drop from the Eibach Sportlines, really. I don't need professional setups or anything...

I appreciate all of the feedback! :happy0180: but this thread has turned into what every other suspension thread has - "you should buy coilovers instead, brah!" and "YOU NEED SHOCKS!!!!!" or "X spring is what I have and it is good, why not go with that?"

I'm not really asking about what springs work, I know what rates I'm looking for and the question really is about drop and nothing more.

So does anyone have information regarding whether or not the Sportlines are form > function? To me they look like the more performance oriented spring because of the stiffer rates, but some people are claiming that the drop isn't ideal for the car. Anyone have some hard knowledge on the subject?

[forzajuve]

In that case the Pro or Sportline will be fine for you. Coil-overs are only if you are doing track/autox. Otherwise i would go for the sportsline and you will be more than happy. If you want you can add a strut/sway combo too which is not too expensive

[Skurj]

Not much to add, I never drove my BRZ on the stock springs and wheels and tires. With pro-lines and staggered fitment (8.5/9.5) it rides real nice. Nice and firm but not jarring. I went with pro-lines as I don't have the coin to spend on new struts atm, and hope these last. And from the ride I hope they last a long time!

My Yaris with s-techs and tokico blues rides harsher than the brz.

[636]

Originally Posted by naikaidriver

I'm just busting your chops like I would with any "rookie"!

At least you posted your mistake like a BOSS where most would have hidden it!

Bravo!

Scott

<3 Love ya.

[kALMIGHTY]

A little off topic (but not really), but if I buy the TRD springs from Scion, and have them install it, will they replace the struts to go with the TRD springs, or just use the stock struts and basically replace them under warranty if the stock struts ever blew?

[CaptainSlow]

I believe they just use stock struts. And they won't replace them because shocks are a wear item.

[vtmike]

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

Like I said, I want a normal daily that is lower and is less oversteer-y. I plan on replacing shocks later, after my OEMs die out. They are so new that it would be silly to waste what life they have left in them. I really just want to know if the control arms and other suspension components can handle this 1.4" drop from the Eibach Sportlines, really. I don't need professional setups or anything...

I appreciate all of the feedback! :happy0180: but this thread has turned into what every other suspension thread has - "you should buy coilovers instead, brah!" and "YOU NEED SHOCKS!!!!!" or "X spring is what I have and it is good, why not go with that?"

I'm not really asking about what springs work, I know what rates I'm looking for and the question really is about drop and nothing more.

So does anyone have information regarding whether or not the Sportlines are form > function? To me they look like the more performance oriented spring because of the stiffer rates, but some people are claiming that the drop isn't ideal for the car. Anyone have some hard knowledge on the subject?

I'm in the same position as you. I want springs that work with the stock struts and shocks (will upgrade those later) that provide a performance improvement that reduce oversteer. After some research I'm going with the rce yellows.

From everything I've read anything over 1" of drop is more form than function and doesn't play well with stock struts and shocks.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[raul]

Originally Posted by vtmike

I'm in the same position as you. I want springs that work with the stock struts and shocks (will upgrade those later) that provide a performance improvement that reduce oversteer. After some research I'm going with the rce yellows.

From everything I've read anything over 1" of drop is more form than function and doesn't play well with stock struts and shocks.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

There's only 1 spring that lowers more than 1", and I think that's the Eibach Sportline. Everything else is in the 0.6" - 1" range. There's other raked setups in which one end of the car is up to 1.2" lower too, but I'm not a fan of those.

RCE has received excellent feedback and by looking at the spring rates it looks like it would make the car too neutral, or even understeer, but people have confirmed that it doesn't and you can still rotate the car easily. Those are a 0.8" drop. I do like the oversteery nature of the car, but would only like to reduce it a bit, so I'll probably end up getting the Swift BRZ springs for my FR-S. They're a 1" drop and a little bit less tail happy. If I ever want to change that, I can probably order a set of Swift FR-S front springs and play with the balance.

[shawnperolis]

Originally Posted by vtmike

I'm in the same position as you. I want springs that work with the stock struts and shocks (will upgrade those later) that provide a performance improvement that reduce oversteer. After some research I'm going with the rce yellows.

From everything I've read anything over 1" of drop is more form than function and doesn't play well with stock struts and shocks.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Yeah, I've read this as well. I'd love it if someone could please explain why this is truth or if it is just what people like to say because they just think it is too low. I don't care how they work with the stock shocks, they will be replaced eventually.

So can someone explain the science behind this?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

So can someone explain the science behind this?

Performance standpoint:
When you drop the car lower you have to increase the spring rates so the car doesn't bottom out. Lower cars are theoretically better right? Lower cg, less body roll, all four corners are close to the same loads due to the stiffness so you're theoretically using all four tires. Right?

Well yes but there's a limit. There needs to be some body roll to load up the outside tires in a corner, it helps the car "hook up" and rotate. Go watch NASCAR at a road course or F1, in a hard corner at the apex it isn't unusual to see the inside front tire hanging in the air because all of the weight is on the outside tires as the car is rotating. By lowering the car and increasing the spring rates you're basically riding a stiff box, the car doesn't have the suspension travel to roll over and hook, which can work on some cars but they're usually not mass produced road cars.

Now consider that changing the height and spring rates you are transforming the characteristic of the car, for better or worse is up to you, maybe you induced some understeer, maybe you amplified the oversteer, maybe it's somewhere in the middle, either way the results can be unpredictable if you go to an extreme.

Now consider the reduced suspension travel. If you're on a smooth track, no problems. If the track has bumps, rough patches, corners that require you to clip the curb to get the rotation then the car may "skitter" over those for lack of a better term, you won't get the same amount of traction as a more compliant suspension. You're also making the car more nervous, to a point where it could be hard to control because any jarring (from the roads or from your hands) could result in a significant loss of traction. Now take it on the road, oh jesus no idea what you'll run into not to mention clearance issues.

So in summary, extremely lowering a car may be beneficial but there are risks that you could transform a car into something not as fast as you had hoped and impractical. But of course nobody knows until they try, this is a generic diatribe rather than car specific.

[shawnperolis]

thanks a lot, that makes a lot of sense... Now if only someone has any results specific to the ideal lowering point of the FRS! Maybe I'll contact vendors about it, but I'm not sure if they will be bias because they want me to buy their product.

[vtmike]

Originally Posted by shawnperolis

thanks a lot, that makes a lot of sense... Now if only someone has any results specific to the ideal lowering point of the FRS! Maybe I'll contact vendors about it, but I'm not sure if they will be bias because they want me to buy their product.

I believe Tada San (gt 86 chief engineer) has been quoted saying the car was designed for a 20mm drop for optimal geometry and performance.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2