Motortrend: 1989 BMW E30 M3 vs 2013 Scion FR-S vs 2013 Volkswagen GTI!

[4agze]

o yeah they didnt factor in the tires, the frs/brz has a 215 Michelin Primacy compare to the 225 Pirelli P-Zero if they both have same tires im willing to bet the FRS will be faster

[MattF]

Originally Posted by fatoni

thats a very dangerous way of thinking for an frs owner.


i am not even sure the golf r is on the gtis level if that makes any sense. yeah its fast but its pretty heavy and its awd system is pretty much junk from what i understand.

3000 vs 3300 not that big of a deal. Not sure where you have heard that the awd is trash but it is definitely isn't. The golf r is definitely a superior car to the gti. I owned a gti sold it for the frs. Wouldn't buy another one but I am considering getting a golf r as a second car with a intake, exhaust, hpfp and apr 2+ tune you can have 350 whp. Plus having forged internals from the factory you can have some faith that it won't blow up after 10k. If you haven't test driven both then you can't really compare them.

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[Lonewolf]

The Euro guy "would rather eat his own poo" than drive the better driver's car?! (FRS)

That's funny, because I would rather take a poo and drive inside of the poo than drive a GTi around...plaid seats...crimony

[dbletap]

Originally Posted by 4agze

o yeah they didnt factor in the tires, the frs/brz has a 215 Michelin Primacy compare to the 225 Pirelli P-Zero if they both have same tires im willing to bet the FRS will be faster

I am the owner of a 2011 GTI with the sunroof package and the 6sp manual transmission. With this setup I did not pay anywhere near what the Leather package (forgot what VW calls it) in the test costs. I like the car a lot but will be trading for one of these in a year or so. I would expect that even with performance tires in the stock size the lap times would have been close.

I have not driven an FR-S yet but looking at the spec I would expect that the performance would be similar to the RSX Type S I traded for my first 07 GTI. The RSX needed to be rev’d to reline all the time to make the car perform. The GTI has a lot of low end power and flat runs out of breath at redline. Even as an old fart I miss the RSX and am ready for a similar car. With the FR-S being rear wheel drive even better.

[hyper4mance]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

It's like asking whether a 335i or S2000 CR is the better car. At VIR, the 335i ran a 3:13, whereas the S2000 CR is 2 seconds slower at 3:15. So the 335i runs faster laptimes, has more torque, is more comfortable, more practical, seats 4, and has a safer handling balance. Does that make it a better car? Not even close.

I've actually got the exact cars in the review -- GTI w/DSG and FR-S w/6MT. Both are great, so it really comes down to what you're looking for. To me, the most telling thing is that I end up driving the FR-S everywhere. It's more than practical enough to be a daily driver, and is the more fun car to drive. And isn't that the point?

Nailed it one the head... with authority! Lol I have the same exact sentiments. My poor motorcycle has only been brought out four times so far. I almost feel like im forcing myself to ride it, when I know deep down I'd rather be in the brz. End of the day, it should be what puts a bigger smile on your face.

[tom@kartboy]

I'm lucky enough to own both .


The one thing that the E30 M3 has that a lot of newer cars are missing is soul. The BRZ comes damn close.

Tom

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by MattF

3000 vs 3300 not that big of a deal. Not sure where you have heard that the awd is trash but it is definitely isn't. The golf r is definitely a superior car to the gti. I owned a gti sold it for the frs. Wouldn't buy another one but I am considering getting a golf r as a second car with a intake, exhaust, hpfp and apr 2+ tune you can have 350 whp. Plus having forged internals from the factory you can have some faith that it won't blow up after 10k. If you haven't test driven both then you can't really compare them.

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i have never driven a golf r and i dont doubt its objectively superior to the gti. i just cant help fut feel like that haldex style drivetrain means most of the understeer of a fwd with the weight of awd. i just dont now enough about those things i guess.

[chutrain]

Also lucky enough to own both. Stock for stock, the BRZ is the closest I have driven in feel. The M3 is more raw and the BRZ more refined. Essentially an E30 M3 for daily driving duty.

[frosty86]

in the end it will come down to...
frs vs. m3 = new vs. used argument
frs vs. gti = rwd vs. fwd argument

Either way, i prefer brand new with the ability to drift. Besides, GTI looks like a bloated toad.

[rice_classic]

British guy is a moron. Look, if you're going to make an argument, then make an argument, don't just make sh** up.

British guy: "The GTI is better because it's faster."
Other guy: "But the FRS is more fun."
British guy: "Doesn't matter, the faster car is better."

Fast forward to the M3 which had the slowest lap time but like the FRS is light and rwd:

British guy (completely invalidating his argument): "Now this is the superior car!"


Moron.

[shawnperolis]

haha British guy keeps going on the faster car being better so the GTI wins!!! ... But then admitted that with a real driver the FR-S put down faster times. I think he was just butthurt that he couldn't drive it.

[jamesm]

Wrong wheel drive is wrong wheel drive. Some cars are fast in spite of it. None are fast because of it.

[MattF]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i have never driven a golf r and i dont doubt its objectively superior to the gti. i just cant help fut feel like that haldex style drivetrain means most of the understeer of a fwd with the weight of awd. i just dont now enough about those things i guess.

Also if the haldex was complete trash why would you find a similar system in the Veyron and Gallardo. With this type of awd you habe less under steer at lower speeds and more at higher speeds which is the opposite of a subbie awd system. You can also get a haldex controller to make it behave different.

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[fatoni]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Wrong wheel drive is wrong wheel drive. Some cars are fast in spite of it. None are fast because of it.

what does that even mean? the only situation where a car would be fast due to its drivetrain would be awd in a low grip scenario.