E85 Fuel?

[Siriusly.Andrew]

EDIT :: Figured out how to add a poll!
Also :: Due to me being an idiot, I'd like to revise the poll but I don't know how. Suppose thats out of the question since the poll is now active?
I also want to begin a discussion about what flex-fuel is, what its primary benefits and disadvantages are.

How it works in an engine, and how it may work in a H4 with DI.

Please note, this post is for those of us who know absolutely nothing about the flex fuel... I suppose I could JGID (When you don't know, JUST GOOGLE IT DUDE!) .. but I'd rather have a constructive topic here instead.

[S2KtoFT86]

Great, now Matador and whoever Biggie is can continue their argument here. Getting out the

[Siriusly.Andrew]

To be entirely honest, I really do I want to have that debate continue, but I am also interested to discover what they know to also improve what I know. At the moment, on this given topic I know absolutely nothing :P

[Biggie™]

The poll's wording is misleading: All E85 compliant means is the fuel system can accept Ethanol, the ECU can tell the percentage of Ethanol in the fuel and the fuel injectors are big enough to support the extra fuel needs. The car would still be able to run 91, it would just have the option of also running E85. I'll explain the added performance benefits later today, when I have more time. But needless to say, saying no to flex fuel only limits the car's out of the box potential.

[Matador]

How exactly do you contend that it limits the potential?

[Biggie™]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

How exactly do you contend that it limits the potential?

I like the people that admitted to not knowing anything about the fuel just checking NO.

Anyway... Where to start, I guess with the basics:

1. E85 has an octane rating of 105. The higher the octane rating the more compression, boost and timing you can safely run. These all increase power.

2. Ethanol evaporates at a relatively low temperature. The effect of evaporation does two main things to increase engine performance:
2a. The effect of evaporation cools the intake charge(the same way a methanol/water injection kit works). This increases the density of the intake charge, more fuel and air are then allowed into the cylinder. More fuel and air makes more power.
2b. The effect of evaporation cools the intake manifold and intake valves. This helps reduce detonation and allows even more boost and or ignition timing. This also helps cool the entire engine, thus while running E85 the engine will run cooler longer.

3. E85 has a much lower stoichiometric fuel-to-oxidizer ratio. This means it takes less air to burn the same amount of fuel, or you can add more fuel to the same amount of air to produce more power. This might confuse some people as Ethanol actually produces less power per gallon than gasoline. But the fact you can burn so much more E85 with the same volume of air allows it to make noticeably more power than gasoline on the same engine.

So, to sum it all up. On a car capable of running both E85 and normal gasoline, when running E85 the car can run more fuel at higher boost and with more advanced timing. Thus making considerably more power with just fuel and a basic tune.

Does that make sense?

[Midship Runabout]

^ very well put.
and i thought it was a higher octane than 105? i could and possibly will be wrong.

plus you can say your going GREEN so you can flip off all the prius drivers.









(no offense prius drivers )

[Midship Runabout]

and what would it hurt if it did have flex fuel capabilities. its not like you must run e85 only. it would be a bonus that doesnt really have any negatives. dont use it if you dont want to.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

so because it uses more E85 with same amount of air, it would burn more fuel per say, so you end up at the gas station more, yes?

It all makes sense, how it would work that way. and personally, if it ment more trips to the station I don't care. They are all over the place here. I suppose for longer trips though I'd probably use O91 or so if my guesstimate is correct that E85 is consumed quicker.

EDIT :: Sorry for my haste in checking No, just flexing my ignorance :P
The fact that engines can effectively run BOTH fuels makes it worth having, especially if you can take some time and money and get it tuned for E85 if the benefits are there. But if you had it tuned for E85, how well would it run if you were somewhere that didn't yet market E85 @ their pumps?

[NESW20]

Biggie - thank you for typing that out much better and more thoroughly than I could have.

one thing I seem to remember about E85 is that in extremely cold temps, there can be some cold-start issues. this is probably not a big issue for some of you, but in my area we get temps of -15F in the winter. other than that the main reason i'm not a fan of actually using it on a daily basis is because the loss in fuel mileage.

i hope the FT is E85 ready. i don't have to run it, but they'll give me huge injectors for race gas!

-Mike

[Midship Runabout]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

But if you had it tuned for E85, how well would it run if you were somewhere that didn't yet market E85 @ their pumps?

dont go there. if you dont have local e85 dont tune for it

[Biggie™]

Originally Posted by NESW20

i hope the FT is E85 ready. i don't have to run it, but they'll give me huge injectors for race gas!

Yes, taking advantage of factory supplied "big" injectors is a plus. Take the MKIV Supra, its injectors were big enough to support massive power gains without an upgrade.

Originally Posted by Dixie Normous

dont go there. if you dont have local e85 dont tune for it

A device like the COBB Tuning AccessPORT would make switching between tunes a snap.

[Siriusly.Andrew]

So a motor running E85 will hit E before a motor with the same amount of regular fuel will?
Like I said, it's not a huge deal. E85 is offered at every gas station here I've stopped at, and it's cheaper than regular fuel so I don't think I'd have any reason NOT to run it.

[Biggie™]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

So a motor running E85 will hit E before a motor with the same amount of regular fuel will?

Yes, that is the one drawback. But the cost savings are considerable when measured against a comparable race gasoline. These prices are from last Saturday!