For those who have doubt in the Vortech kit please read.

[RedLeader]

Originally Posted by AZFA20

It's also important and not nearly talked about enough that PSI is only one small part of the equation and really means nothing when it all comes down to it. What really matters is the compressor wheels design and compressor housing dimensions. Toss in a turbo and it becomes even more complicated with turbine design and turbine housing dimensions. When people ask me how much boost I am running it always kind of bothers me because who cares what boost you are running if you know nothing about the specs of the turbo or in this case the supercharger....... Just some food for thought for those who get hung up on PSI vs dyno charts.

In the end, though, isn't 12psi going to make the same amount of power (assuming for a moment that its 12 psi across the entire rpm band) if that 12psi is coming from a turbo or a supercharger? Assuming all things equal, isn't 12psi=12psi? I get that turbos and S/Cs deliver that air differently, but in the end, all that either is doing is pressurizing air before delivering it to the cylinders. Beyond that mechanical action, it should be all tuning. Since all anyone seems to be talking about is peak numbers, wouldn't a turbo making 12psi peak make the same horsepower (pump gas, altitude constant, same car, same dyno blah blah) as an S/C making 12psi peak?

I don't mean to derail, just a question/observation. Everyone seems to be more interested in peak numbers, which is fine if that's what you're after, but I don't see the difference in peak numbers if both options are pushing the same air pressure to the motor.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Just flash a pumpgas tune, leave the pulley.

so the pump gas tune keeps the boost at 12psi@redline but pulls timing to keep it from detonating?

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by RedLeader

Since all anyone seems to be talking about is peak numbers, wouldn't a turbo making 12psi peak make the same horsepower (pump gas, altitude constant, same car, same dyno blah blah) as an S/C making 12psi peak?

No, the Turbo kit would not make the same power. The turbo kit would make more.

[RedLeader]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

No, the Turbo kit would not make the same power. The turbo kit would make more.

How would a turbo making 12psi make more power than an S/C making 12psi? Once it gets to the motor, what does it care where this 12psi is coming from?

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by RedLeader

How would a turbo making 12psi make more power than an S/C making 12psi? Once it gets to the motor, what does it care where this 12psi is coming from?

You can google search the specific and elaborated answer, you can search for dyno sheet comparisons, but answering in the simplest way possible, the parasatic losses on the motor working via a pulley to turn the compressor are greater than the losses the motor has turning a compressor with exhaust gases.

[Sonolin]

OP - I'd love to see some videos if that's possible

[ngabdala]

This

Originally Posted by Sonolin

HOLY $***!!!!

That's it, I'm going with Vortech. Screw the house & other plans. LOL.

I can't believe it! I was hoping for 280-300+ whp with e85 but 345 whp???? Wow. I know for 100% certain this kit will satisfy my inner speed demon and best of all I do believe this kit is the best fit for this car's character.

I wish I had the money now or I'd buy it!

EDIT: Please keep us updated on the reliability of this setup OP! I'd seriously like to know.

[2forme]

What is this cars character? I would love to know.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by RedLeader

How would a turbo making 12psi make more power than an S/C making 12psi? Once it gets to the motor, what does it care where this 12psi is coming from?

OMFG not this again! This thread is dead to me.

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by ngabdala

This

Yea, can we please stop the s/c vs turbo jerking off in every vortech thread that springs up?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by RedLeader

In the end, though, isn't 12psi going to make the same amount of power (assuming for a moment that its 12 psi across the entire rpm band) going to make the same horsepower if that 12psi is coming from a turbo or a supercharger? Assuming all things equal, isn't 12psi=12psi? I get that turbos and S/Cs deliver that air differently, but in the end, all that either is doing is pressurizing air before delivering it to the cylinders. Beyond that mechanical action, it should be all tuning. Since all anyone seems to be talking about is peak numbers, wouldn't a turbo making 12psi peak make the same horsepower (pump gas, altitude constant, same car, same dyno blah blah) as an S/C making 12psi peak?

I don't mean to derail, just a question/observation. Everyone seems to be more interested in peak numbers, which is fine if that's what you're after, but I don't see the difference in peak numbers if both options are pushing the same air pressure to the motor.

not at all. 12psi != 12psi. the difference is in efficiency. heat is the enemy of (reliable) power. the intake charge temps on a less efficient compressor are much higher than those on a more efficient compressor, for a given boost level. smaller compressors move much less air than larger ones for given pressure ratio as well. this is what limits how much power you can make with a compressor: how much air it can move with an acceptable level of efficiency at a given pressure ratio (that's what you're reading on a compressor map).

centrifugal blowers tend to be more efficient than pd blowers, less so than a turbo. of course there are exceptions to every rule, but in general that's what to expect.

[RedLeader]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

You can google search the specific and elaborated answer, you can search for dyno sheet comparisons, but answering in the simplest way possible, the parasatic losses on the motor working via a pulley to turn the compressor are greater than the losses the motor has turning a compressor with exhaust gases.

Okay, that makes sense, I keep forgetting about the drag on the motor from spinning the S/C.

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by RedLeader

In the end, though, isn't 12psi going to make the same amount of power (assuming for a moment that its 12 psi across the entire rpm band) if that 12psi is coming from a turbo or a supercharger? Assuming all things equal, isn't 12psi=12psi? I get that turbos and S/Cs deliver that air differently, but in the end, all that either is doing is pressurizing air before delivering it to the cylinders. Beyond that mechanical action, it should be all tuning. Since all anyone seems to be talking about is peak numbers, wouldn't a turbo making 12psi peak make the same horsepower (pump gas, altitude constant, same car, same dyno blah blah) as an S/C making 12psi peak?

I don't mean to derail, just a question/observation. Everyone seems to be more interested in peak numbers, which is fine if that's what you're after, but I don't see the difference in peak numbers if both options are pushing the same air pressure to the motor.

No it would not, but that is a much too huge topic of discussion to get into here. A lot of things play into it. The main cause for differential is differences in efficiency, and how compressors perform the work that they do. Two big factors are the amount of work required to produce the boost pressure, and the amount of heat generated by said work plays a huge factor as well. Like I said though...huge conversation. If you are interested, the first law of thermodynamics is a good place to begin, and then you can expand from there (pardon the pun).

[2forme]

Let me see if I can help. You can't make comments like "This kit is the best for this car omgz omgz omgz omgz...." and then expect people NOT to make comparisons supporting their opinion, followed by whining when they do so.

If you want a thread like that, perhaps the title should be "Vortech fanboy love orgy"... That would probably discourage the turbo fans from entering. Just an idea