vs. 128i - Page 5 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Ryephile · 04-30-2012, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zygrene

For those of you who have driven both the stickshift 128i and 135i, how usable is that extra 70+ HP in "aggressive" daily driving? I'm seriously considering a 1 series right now but not sure which to get. And how big a difference does the M sport package make?

I've driven both the 128i and 135i, both in 6MT. IMO, the 128i's engine is more pure and fun. There's a subtle difference in steering between the two; the 135i tramlines more and has more corrupt feeling steering, again it's not as pure as the 128i. The 128i is more fun, but that doesn't answer your question. The 135i is nice-n-quick, and the power is very noticeable versus the 128i, but to me it's corrupted steering and the slight wisp of turbo lag is just annoying enough to be a buzz kill in almost every situation. I can't comment on the //M Sport package as I haven't driven one so equipped. To kinda digress, the 335d was much more enjoyable to drive than either, even though it's strictly an automatic transmission. IMO, I'd pass on the 1-er unless you're desperately infatuated with that particular chassis. There are much better driving BMWs to be had.

zygrene · 04-30-2012, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryephile

I've driven both the 128i and 135i, both in 6MT. IMO, the 128i's engine is more pure and fun. There's a subtle difference in steering between the two; the 135i tramlines more and has more corrupt feeling steering, again it's not as pure as the 128i. The 128i is more fun, but that doesn't answer your question. The 135i is nice-n-quick, and the power is very noticeable versus the 128i, but to me it's corrupted steering and the slight wisp of turbo lag is just annoying enough to be a buzz kill in almost every situation. I can't comment on the //M Sport package as I haven't driven one so equipped. To kinda digress, the 335d was much more enjoyable to drive than either, even though it's strictly an automatic transmission. IMO, I'd pass on the 1-er unless you're desperately infatuated with that particular chassis. There are much better driving BMWs to be had.

That's interesting. Why did you find the 335d to be more fun than the 1 series? Does the 335d feel different than the 328i/335i? I'd imagine the 1 series to be at least as fun to drive as the comparable 3 series with the same engine since the chassis is lighter.

Sasquachulator · 04-30-2012, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zygrene

That's interesting. Why did you find the 335d to be more fun than the 1 series? Does the 335d feel different than the 328i/335i? I'd imagine the 1 series to be at least as fun to drive as the comparable 3 series with the same engine since the chassis is lighter.

The 1 series is actually not that much lighter than the 3 series. I think the difference is aroud 150lbs.....

zygrene · 04-30-2012, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

The 1 series is actually not that much lighter than the 3 series. I think the difference is aroud 150lbs.....

Hmm... then what is about the 3 series that makes it more fun to drive?

stupenal · 04-09-2013, 08:56 PM

Bumping this up from the dead

The MSRP pricing of a BMW 128i 6spd vs BRZ Limited is decently close.

BRZ MSRP = $28,200 ($28,688 with option 1a package)
BMW 128i MSRP = $32,095 ($33,995 with m-sport package)
Difference is $5,3XX. Decent amount of coin.

But when you look at the actual purchase price, it's a bit different:

BRZ purchase price = $28,688 (MSRP, maybe $1k lower if you're not in Socal)
BMW 128i purchase price = $28,970 (via European Delivery and includes $750 loyalty cash. Yes I know there are costs associated with European Delivery, but just build a vacation around it and justify the cost as the cost of a normal vacation, which it is).
Difference is less than $300. Price is no longer an issue at this point.

BMW includes 4 years 50,000 zero cost maintenance (everything but the tires), Subaru gives at best 2 years 24,000.

Things you get with the BRZ you don't get with the BMW:
1. heated seats
2. navigation
3. HIDs
4. keyless entry

Things you get with the BMW you don't get with the BRZ
1. roundel badge
2. nicer interior overall

Then there's the performance, size, and looks differences which are up to the individual buyer to discern. There's additional considerations such as insurance, maintenance, and resale value.

For those who think BMWs have a high maintenance cost, this is only partially true. The inline 6 n/a engine has been the lifeblood of BMWs for the past 20 years, and they're actually pretty simple to work on and overall very reliable. Consumables such as brakes and fluids are priced comparative to JDM parts (assuming you're getting aftermarket and not OEM).

I think the question comes down to what fits your needs best - more of a out of the box track car vs. a sporty "luxury" coupe. "Luxury" is used in a loose sense given the bare bones nature of a base 128i.

zygrene · 04-10-2013, 12:52 AM

Great points there. Since my posts a year ago I've had the chance to drive a 135i with M Sport package and 6MT. It was pretty fun during the 15 minutes I had it. The engine sounded glorious and had great response, the steering was nice and heavy (if a bit fake feeling), and the interior is obviously a couple of steps above even the BRZ Limited. The backseat is also very usable. But at the end of the day it still felt like a heavy luxury coupe. Depends on what qualities you're looking for in a sports coupe, but either the FRS/BRZ or the 135i can be great cars. For me, I'd almost always pick light, tossable, and reliable over heavy, powerful, and expensive to maintain.

RAWR BRZ · 04-10-2013, 01:02 AM

My sister drives a 135i. That said frs/vrz look much more sporty than a 1 series and you dont feel like you are siting on a stool

Kelbyat07 · 04-10-2013, 01:43 AM

IMO

New cars > Old cars

Save gas, and use the extra money on mods and stuff.

WolfpackS2k · 04-10-2013, 12:36 PM

I just couldn't stand driving a car that ugly.

Huehuecoyotl · 04-10-2013, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFfitz56

No LSD...no thank you

bingo

GTM_Challenge · 04-10-2013, 01:53 PM

I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the 1-series. They are built for a different audience than the FRS/BRZ.

Ganthrithor · 04-10-2013, 03:16 PM

Wow there's a lot of BMW hate in this thread. My dad's got a 135: if you set them up properly they are a hell of a car, especially for the money and the practicality you get out of it.

The back seats on the 1-series are pretty small, but there's definitely a lot more space back there than in the BRZ (you can actually sit behind the driver-- you don't have a lot of room to stretch your legs, but you can sit there comfortably enough for a few-hour roadtrip, where doing so in the BRZ would be absolutely awful). The trunk is also quite big (with the rear seats down we've fit luggage + a bicycle back there in a pinch).

The 135 is also extremely quick (If you can find an older one with the N54 engine they're lovely) and very tunable. Granted ours has had most of the suspension, wheels, tires, and exhaust changed, the engine's been chipped, and we added a torsen LSD, but I guess my point is that you can get a serious amount of performance out of a 135 without completely breaking the bank. It's definitely in a different price bracket than the BRZ though.

IIRC I figured that for about 35 grand I could have picked up a used, N54 135 and rebuilt the suspension. The trouble was that in addition to the higher initial price, everything would have been more expensive: consumables, parts, labor, everything. In the end I decided that new BRZ (no worries about repair costs for 2 years, cheap consumables, cheaper parts / labor after warrantee expires) would be a better idea than a used 135 project car.

tl;dr: The BRZ is definitely more of a sports car (lighter, less power, less practical and well-appointed), while the 135 is an extremely practical, fairly refined car that you can also squeeze a ton of performance out of. When hammering on the 135 you definitely feel the weight, but it's got a lot of mechanical grip and oceans of torque to offset it and the handling is really quite pleasant. It's a very quick car and a lot of fun to drive hard. It's also a very relaxed cruiser / around town car because of that torquey engine. It's a real multi-role vehicle, and I don't think you could go terribly wrong purchasing one as long as you can afford to configure it the way you want and keep it maintained.

Obviously the BRZ is a lighter, purer sports car, so if that's what you're looking for you probably shouldn't get a 135. That said, its not like the 135 is a land-yacht-- its only ~3200 lbs IIRC and it's not a big car-- about the size of an older 3-series. Personally I chose the BRZ but if I had to pick one or the other based solely on the cars' characteristics (rather than price, etc) it would be a really tough call.

Scenic Driver · 04-11-2013, 01:31 PM

If I didn't like the BRZ my next stop was going to be the BMW dealer to get a 1 series, they were the only 2 cars I was considering.

Want.FR-S · 04-11-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stupenal

Bumping this up from the dead
.....
Things you get with the BRZ you don't get with the BMW:
1. heated seats
2. navigation
3. HIDs
4. keyless entry

Things you get with the BMW you don't get with the BRZ
1. roundel badge
2. nicer interior overall

It seems that you are looking at the interiors only. On the mechanical side, things to add on BRZ are:

* light-weight, low height, with low center-of-gravity
* LSD (someone mentioned this already)
* less grippy tires
* a bit front heavy (good for drifting, though)

on the 128

* heavy chassis with higher center-of-gravity and car height
* larger back seat and trunk space
* maybe more grippy tires?
* more balance (close to 50:50 distribution)

Like many ppl mentioned here, the 1 series and the twins are the ones I am looking for. Both has pros and cons at this moment so I am still considering.

04-10-2013, 01:43 AM	#64
Kelbyat07 Poor College Kid Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: ~.~ Location: Chicago Posts: 2,801 Thanks: 246 Thanked 2,182 Times in 1,249 Posts Mentioned: 32 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	IMO New cars > Old cars Save gas, and use the extra money on mods and stuff. __________________

04-11-2013, 01:31 PM	#69
Scenic Driver Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Drives: 13 Subaru BRZ, 02 Audi TTQ Location: Orange County, NY Posts: 456 Thanks: 61 Thanked 321 Times in 168 Posts Mentioned: 7 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	If I didn't like the BRZ my next stop was going to be the BMW dealer to get a 1 series, they were the only 2 cars I was considering. __________________

04-09-2013, 08:56 PM	#61
stupenal Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 97 e36 m3/4/5 Location: Socal Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Bumping this up from the dead The MSRP pricing of a BMW 128i 6spd vs BRZ Limited is decently close. BRZ MSRP = $28,200 ($28,688 with option 1a package) BMW 128i MSRP = $32,095 ($33,995 with m-sport package) Difference is $5,3XX. Decent amount of coin. But when you look at the actual purchase price, it's a bit different: BRZ purchase price = $28,688 (MSRP, maybe $1k lower if you're not in Socal) BMW 128i purchase price = $28,970 (via European Delivery and includes $750 loyalty cash. Yes I know there are costs associated with European Delivery, but just build a vacation around it and justify the cost as the cost of a normal vacation, which it is). Difference is less than $300. Price is no longer an issue at this point. BMW includes 4 years 50,000 zero cost maintenance (everything but the tires), Subaru gives at best 2 years 24,000. Things you get with the BRZ you don't get with the BMW: 1. heated seats 2. navigation 3. HIDs 4. keyless entry Things you get with the BMW you don't get with the BRZ 1. roundel badge 2. nicer interior overall Then there's the performance, size, and looks differences which are up to the individual buyer to discern. There's additional considerations such as insurance, maintenance, and resale value. For those who think BMWs have a high maintenance cost, this is only partially true. The inline 6 n/a engine has been the lifeblood of BMWs for the past 20 years, and they're actually pretty simple to work on and overall very reliable. Consumables such as brakes and fluids are priced comparative to JDM parts (assuming you're getting aftermarket and not OEM). I think the question comes down to what fits your needs best - more of a out of the box track car vs. a sporty "luxury" coupe. "Luxury" is used in a loose sense given the bare bones nature of a base 128i.

04-10-2013, 12:52 AM	#62
zygrene Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Drives: 1991 Formula Red NSX Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 218 Thanks: 69 Thanked 59 Times in 30 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Great points there. Since my posts a year ago I've had the chance to drive a 135i with M Sport package and 6MT. It was pretty fun during the 15 minutes I had it. The engine sounded glorious and had great response, the steering was nice and heavy (if a bit fake feeling), and the interior is obviously a couple of steps above even the BRZ Limited. The backseat is also very usable. But at the end of the day it still felt like a heavy luxury coupe. Depends on what qualities you're looking for in a sports coupe, but either the FRS/BRZ or the 135i can be great cars. For me, I'd almost always pick light, tossable, and reliable over heavy, powerful, and expensive to maintain.

04-10-2013, 01:02 AM	#63
RAWR BRZ Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Drives: 2010 BMW M3, 2013 Subaru BRZ Location: Orange County Posts: 376 Thanks: 32 Thanked 97 Times in 56 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	My sister drives a 135i. That said frs/vrz look much more sporty than a 1 series and you dont feel like you are siting on a stool

04-10-2013, 01:53 PM	#67
GTM_Challenge Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: On track Location: Chicago Posts: 527 Thanks: 120 Thanked 285 Times in 166 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the 1-series. They are built for a different audience than the FRS/BRZ.

04-10-2013, 03:16 PM	#68
Ganthrithor Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Drives: '13 BRZ, '06 997, Other Things(TM) Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 1,078 Thanks: 1,715 Thanked 670 Times in 351 Posts Mentioned: 9 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Wow there's a lot of BMW hate in this thread. My dad's got a 135: if you set them up properly they are a hell of a car, especially for the money and the practicality you get out of it. The back seats on the 1-series are pretty small, but there's definitely a lot more space back there than in the BRZ (you can actually sit behind the driver-- you don't have a lot of room to stretch your legs, but you can sit there comfortably enough for a few-hour roadtrip, where doing so in the BRZ would be absolutely awful). The trunk is also quite big (with the rear seats down we've fit luggage + a bicycle back there in a pinch). The 135 is also extremely quick (If you can find an older one with the N54 engine they're lovely) and very tunable. Granted ours has had most of the suspension, wheels, tires, and exhaust changed, the engine's been chipped, and we added a torsen LSD, but I guess my point is that you can get a serious amount of performance out of a 135 without completely breaking the bank. It's definitely in a different price bracket than the BRZ though. IIRC I figured that for about 35 grand I could have picked up a used, N54 135 and rebuilt the suspension. The trouble was that in addition to the higher initial price, everything would have been more expensive: consumables, parts, labor, everything. In the end I decided that new BRZ (no worries about repair costs for 2 years, cheap consumables, cheaper parts / labor after warrantee expires) would be a better idea than a used 135 project car. tl;dr: The BRZ is definitely more of a sports car (lighter, less power, less practical and well-appointed), while the 135 is an extremely practical, fairly refined car that you can also squeeze a ton of performance out of. When hammering on the 135 you definitely feel the weight, but it's got a lot of mechanical grip and oceans of torque to offset it and the handling is really quite pleasant. It's a very quick car and a lot of fun to drive hard. It's also a very relaxed cruiser / around town car because of that torquey engine. It's a real multi-role vehicle, and I don't think you could go terribly wrong purchasing one as long as you can afford to configure it the way you want and keep it maintained. Obviously the BRZ is a lighter, purer sports car, so if that's what you're looking for you probably shouldn't get a 135. That said, its not like the 135 is a land-yacht-- its only ~3200 lbs IIRC and it's not a big car-- about the size of an older 3-series. Personally I chose the BRZ but if I had to pick one or the other based solely on the cars' characteristics (rather than price, etc) it would be a really tough call.

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