San Diego Tour results

[zo7vette]

Moving the MSR/ZOK will help, but the base MX5 will still own the Twins, ask me how I know In 1 run, I straight timed my own car, and the owner, by a full second, in a base 6spd, he jumped into an MSR for the tour, was 2nd. The Twins should have a class to dominate, sounds selfish, but this is the type of car that is good for the sport. Heyward suggested GS, and I now agree with that move, give the Twins a class, and see 40-50 in grid, this year. They can move the car right now, they have a 12 month window to move it to any class they wish, but I fear with the Street proposal that the Twins will be left out in the cold for a while.

For those using the results from last years tour, take a look at the ES results, the FRS was 1.5 seconds back. An MSR/ZOK with a top driver would have been faster than ES. Jay is a 2 time national champion, so that tells me the car is the issue, and based on my personal experience with the FRS, is what is happening.

[Kido1986]

Ive managed to beat a BS Champ in his underprepped MX5 (NC nonMSR) on RS3s, stock otherwise, with my car with wheel, RS3s, front swaybar and alignment. I barely beat him but he's been able to beat me in my own car multiple times. I feel a prepped base MX5 and the twins are close.

[Sam Strano]

I like this car. I own one. But selfish isn't good.

Let's look at some details. At Blytheville, Jadrice did *just fine* paxing 9th and vs. my 7th, both running 1st heat. Dixie, had a much tighter turn around, according to my data from the Corvette the low speed was 29 mph. That's going to kill a Twin, every time. Jadrice's result from there had more to do with that than anything. Also he tried to run BFG R1S's which neither he nor I feel are as fast as an A6. He's run both on the car, and we both think there is about a .7 or .8 difference.

Now, I hear tell that SD wasn't great for cars without torque, at least on day 1. And there is that hill which is never good for a car down on torque, period. I know I run FedEx field in DC all the time, which has an even bigger hill, according to those that have been both places.

I don't disagree that these aren't the *ideal* cars for CS. I don't agree they should be just because we own them, but hell yes I'd like to see lots of the out there and competitive. I'm going to ask you guys take a breath, a big one, and wait. If this street thing goes through, and camber goes with it we are talking all new classing, and all new metrics and you just might get what you want.

I think, personally, that it's a pipe dream that you will see a move before then for Stock, because it might not even be around to worry about.

I will ask that those wanting what they want consider there are lots of others that want what they want too. Everyone does. There are only so many classes, and things are going to be in turmoil soon. Trust me, I hear you.... we've all heard you. I promise to do the most fair job possible.

[xwd]

I agree with Sam, it's too early and the results so far are nowhere near horrible enough to get the car moved. The car would also be an overdog in either DS or GS. DS had way more entries than CS at nationals last year and even GS did as well, so they aren't going to shake up those classes.

Jay said the Dixie course was pretty terrible for the car, and he was running the shorter 235/40s which hurt in the spot where he could get on it.

Eric Jones was one cone away from being 8th at nationals last year, ahead of all but 1 RX-8 and quite a few MSRs. That's in a car with a Cusco front bar and A6s which he hadn't really driven very much. He was only .3-.4 behind Dan's 370Z each day at the recent Sunbelt Tour and that 370Z is proven to be right at the top of CS.

[zo7vette]

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

I like this car. I own one. But selfish isn't good.

Let's look at some details. At Blytheville, Jadrice did *just fine* paxing 9th and vs. my 7th, both running 1st heat. Dixie, had a much tighter turn around, according to my data from the Corvette the low speed was 29 mph. That's going to kill a Twin, every time. Jadrice's result from there had more to do with that than anything. Also he tried to run BFG R1S's which neither he nor I feel are as fast as an A6. He's run both on the car, and we both think there is about a .7 or .8 difference.

Now, I hear tell that SD wasn't great for cars without torque, at least on day 1. And there is that hill which is never good for a car down on torque, period. I know I run FedEx field in DC all the time, which has an even bigger hill, according to those that have been both places.

I don't disagree that these aren't the *ideal* cars for CS. I don't agree they should be just because we own them, but hell yes I'd like to see lots of the out there and competitive. I'm going to ask you guys take a breath, a big one, and wait. If this street thing goes through, and camber goes with it we are talking all new classing, and all new metrics and you just might get what you want.

I think, personally, that it's a pipe dream that you will see a move before then for Stock, because it might not even be around to worry about.

I will ask that those wanting what they want consider there are lots of others that want what they want too. Everyone does. There are only so many classes, and things are going to be in turmoil soon. Trust me, I hear you.... we've all heard you. I promise to do the most fair job possible.

Sam,

May I ask, were you part of classing the Twins in CS?

Jeff

[edj]

Originally Posted by dwx

Eric Jones was one cone away from being 8th at nationals last year, ahead of all but 1 RX-8 and quite a few MSRs. That's in a car with a Cusco front bar and A6s which he hadn't really driven very much. He was only .3-.4 behind Dan's 370Z each day at the recent Sunbelt Tour and that 370Z is proven to be right at the top of CS.

actually i was on the OEM bar at Nationals and i had a good 20-22 runs
in the car before Nats.

if it wasn't for all the cones and some OPR issues, i would have been a little
higher on the list...

[Sam Strano]

I was, because based on weight it's in between the Solstice and MX5. On power, it makes more HP than either, less torque than either. Same size wheels at the MX5, 1" narrower than the Solstice wheels. But the car is also narrower by a touch as well.

You might not like CS, and I get that. But it's not a DS car, it's much more like the Sports Cars in CS. ES I think is a huge stretch. And like you, I think if the "specials" weren't in CS, CS would be fine. Others seem to agree as well. With the changes that look to be coming, I bet it's a good time for the super specials to be dealt with.

Also, who's to say there will be as many classes in this new, should it happen, street category? Things will get even tougher trying to put 9 current classes into fewer. Add the camber change and the large unknows of many of the current stock class cars on "street" tires and it's all up in the air.

FWIW, I had a vote when the SAC talked about it. But as we've learned the SEB is the final say. And again, Jadrice hasn't sucked. Eric Jones has been going well too. I'm not going to argue that the car is the best, or that it should be. I will argue that in the grand scheme of things, the car is pretty competitive.

I get you were 1.399 back of the winner in SD. Again, the hill and all that. I've also won what were spec classes by more than that... at Nationals. You were .332 behind Hui in 3rd, who was in the same car that won (and he was over 1 second back of his co-driver).

[xwd]

Originally Posted by edj

actually i was on the OEM bar at Nationals and i had a good 20-22 runs
in the car before Nats.

if it wasn't for all the cones and some OPR issues, i would have been a little
higher on the list...

Sorry I think I got you mixed up with one of the RTR cars. .

[zo7vette]

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

I was, because based on weight it's in between the Solstice and MX5. On power, it makes more HP than either, less torque than either. Same size wheels at the MX5, 1" narrower than the Solstice wheels. But the car is also narrower by a touch as well.

You might not like CS, and I get that. But it's not a DS car, it's much more like the Sports Cars in CS. ES I think is a huge stretch. And like you, I think if the "specials" weren't in CS, CS would be fine. Others seem to agree as well. With the changes that look to be coming, I bet it's a good time for the super specials to be dealt with.

Also, who's to say there will be as many classes in this new, should it happen, street category? Things will get even tougher trying to put 9 current classes into fewer. Add the camber change and the large unknows of many of the current stock class cars on "street" tires and it's all up in the air.

FWIW, I had a vote when the SAC talked about it. But as we've learned the SEB is the final say. And again, Jadrice hasn't sucked. Eric Jones has been going well too. I'm not going to argue that the car is the best, or that it should be. I will argue that in the grand scheme of things, the car is pretty competitive.

I get you were 1.399 back of the winner in SD. Again, the hill and all that. I've also won what were spec classes by more than that... at Nationals. You were .332 behind Hui in 3rd, who was in the same car that won (and he was over 1 second back of his co-driver).

I don't agree that the FRS can keep up with the base MX5 and Solstice, I know they are faster than the Twins.

You keep using Jadrice as your example to keep the Twins in CS, but as you know, since he is buying all his ESP parts from you, that he has thrown in the towel on the FRS in CS, after he stated a few months ago that he would run the entire season in CS to show they could get it done. He sent his letter for the move, please read his letter.

ET Pro, another loss to the MSR, driven by Heinitz. I don't need any more data to prove my point. But will leave with this 1 data point, even using DS's pax index, I would have come in 2nd, .155 behind Mike, and I left that amount in my reaction and 60 ft times, but so did he, so it's a push.

I am done with the FRS, so I have no dog in this fight anymore, I am moving on to STR, building another MX5. If you want what is best for the sport, for your members, move the car to GS, just give them the class (or make a spec class, radical idea yes, but would be an awesome class), and see 40-50 cars in grid at Nationals this year. Don't wait for the "street" proposal to settle down, move them now, and watch them explode around the country. Scion is offering Pro Solo Contingecy, maybe they will expand the program with a spec class?

I will leave on this note. I love the FRS, such a fun car, great looks, nimble handling, rear wheel drive, roomy, affordable, just really weak in the mid range, which kills it in certain corners, and the fuel cut-off seriously slows the car down and you can't ride the limiter. I short shifted to 3rd three times at the ET Pro, after trying to just ride it out.

Jeff Cawthorne

[xwd]

I've talked to a couple people who I would consider somewhat "in the know" and there is 0% chance the car is going to get re-classed this year.

I don't have any details (people won't tell me ) but there are other changes coming with stock classing that I don't think moving the car this year makes much sense. There are likely other changes making it more competitive next year. Moving it to DS/GS this year would just disrupt those classes.

[apexaddict]

Agree on it not moving for at least a year (this probably goes for ANY car), although I am a big fan of moving it to GS if it does. While it will become Spec FRS/BRZ in the short term, is that really such a bad thing?

Even if Street goes through with all of its additional allowances, I'm still skeptical that an FRS can keep pace with an MS-R.

[Kido1986]

I dont think it will match the MS-R in Street but I feel Base MX-5/Solstice will be a fair match in Street vs twins