Toyota considering moving Scion upmarket. FR-S variants could pave the way

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

That is part of quality. Materials used, how they use them, options, features, all improve the quality of a vehicle. This is a small example, but something like the trunk liner is sad on Scion's part. Can't even be bothered with that bit of quality to make it look a little nicer and offer some sound deadening. Doesn't even weigh that much. But that is part of quality and would even fit in your build quality thought. It's really sad, the lengths Scion went to in order to reduce the quality. I also offer up as an example the Scion 10 limited edition and it's pep boys glowy shift knob. It's embarrassing, really.

The tC, at least my '05 RS1, had better fit and finish and more little features than most cars in its price range (and some above). Auto off headlights, one touch up and down windows both sides, nice digital HVAC controls, reclining rear seats, and a handful of other little things that were hard to find for 16k in 2005. Plus, it looked great, drove pretty well, seats 4 comfortably and has tons of storage space.

It just depends on WHERE they spend the money. Obviously the tC had things going towards design, finish, amenities, etc. and saved money on suspension, engine (straight out of a Camry), and power. The FR-S is much the opposite, with the extra money put into suspension, engine, and chassis while neglecting things like nice roof liners, sound insulation, and center console storage.

The other beauty of Scion is you generally get a lot for your money, you just have to pick what that priority is. In addition, Scion's Pure Pricing saves you the endless headaches of going back and forth with a stubborn salesman to keep yourself from being screwed out of another couple thousand. That alone drew me to the FR-S over the BR-Z (in addition to the better exterior styling IMO and the fact that I have had nothing but wonderful service from Kearny Mesa Toyota in San Diego, and specifically Rich Manas for Scion sales and Ron Watzek in the service department.

Lastly, until Scion gets their own dealers and changes their registration to their own names (My tC was listed as Toyota, as is my FR-S), then they can be considered a separate entity. At least Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura have their own dealerships and you generally don't cross-service the "lower" vehicles between them. Toyota and Scion are one in the same, and a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

That is part of quality. Materials used, how they use them, options, features, all improve the quality of a vehicle. This is a small example, but something like the trunk liner is sad on Scion's part. Can't even be bothered with that bit of quality to make it look a little nicer and offer some sound deadening. Doesn't even weigh that much. But that is part of quality and would even fit in your build quality thought. It's really sad, the lengths Scion went to in order to reduce the quality. I also offer up as an example the Scion 10 limited edition and it's pep boys glowy shift knob. It's embarrassing, really.

Becuz Racecar. thats why.

But really do I really care that my sports car doesnt have nice seats or sound deading. No, cuz its a damn sports car. Not a Benz or Bimmer. If they introduced a budget luxury car I would expect to have such. If it didnt I wouldnt complain. I would either not buy it or fix it aftermarket because no car will ever be perfect for everyone, so companies compromise to fit the majority of their target.

But as others have said give me a cool Baja like mini truck or a 80s like Hilux and I'll be hella happy

[Turbowned]

Isn't that what Lexus is for? In my mind:

Scion = cheap Toyota
Toyota = normal Toyota
Lexus = expensive Toyota


"Scion" and "luxury" in the same sentence is like "Kia" and "luxury" in the same sentence. You can get luxury features, yes, but the name doesn't carry anywhere near the same weight as Mercedes Benz, Audi or BMW.

[RMStringer]

Originally Posted by zc06_kisstherain

I kinda saw this day would come from Scion/Toyota/Lexus.
They should've sticked with FRS with Toyota brand as they planned at first time.
many people / car enthuaist wanted Toyota brand not Scion including me.
I originally planned to purchase FRS under toyota and they changed route to Scion.
I disappointed and went with Subaru BRZ. (can't justifiy myself driving Scion brand with my age)

I don't think FRS under Lexus doesnt make sense to me since it's already launched vehicle in market. suddenly FRS is now under Lexus? lol who would buy even all nice option / new features added.

I am 41 and will be 42 this year and i bought the FR-S!! So what kind of age restriction does the FR-S have?

[wbradley]

I laugh at all the brand whores on the forum.

Scion was formed as a part of Project Genesis, an idea Toyota executives came up with in order to bring in younger customers to the Toyota products and build brand loyalty from there. The MR2 Spyder was the first car for the US intended to start the trend. Sadly Canada never got that model and only got the Scion brand 10 years later. That was probably necessary due to dwindling volumes in the US.

According to a recent Scion presentation at the New York show this year, Scion's median buyer age is 31, the youngest in the industry and 10 years less than average. Where Toyota's conservative image has helped them win the mainstream buyers, Scion has definitely achieved their goal regarding new and first time buyers. Hardly a failure and sagging sales in recent years is easily correlated to the state of the US economy. In 2012 Scion sold over 70,000 vehicles, a pretty good recovery from a low of 45,000 in recent times but not the 90,000 peak reached earlier on.

I say let the marketing people do what's best for the company at large. If you don't find the brand prestigious, buy another make. I still like the fact that buying anything affiliated with Toyota is a smart move. I purchased 5 new Acuras and then 2 Hondas consecutively. I am much older than the average demographic but guess what, if I decide to go back to sedans I'd look at the Avalon or any Toyota in a heart beat. Honda lost me and I am sure Scion is doing their job successfully. As a curious aside, they do get a surprisingly significant number of value conscious older buyers especially for the xB. Probably sales that otherwise might go to the Korean brands.

[airjonny]

Scion should go the Hyundai "have your cake and eat it" route. They got cars like the genesis and eqqus that are well equipped that are formidable alternatives to cars that are 10-20K more.

[MtnDrvr86]

Id rather see Scion become more like Pontiac was becoming before GM killed it off. Sporty, more RWD. Roadster, sedan, slightly bigger coupe. Maybe through in a new celica with an all-trac option. and a new mr2 using the h4 from the frs. But thats probably all wishful thinking

[Rampage]

IF this is for real and Mr Lintz and Mr Murtha are serious then I think they have a major problem with the way consumers identify with their brand. They are perceived as a Kiddy car company and a Kia/Hyundai competitor. It is going to be difficult if not impossible to convince the young execs/professionals that a Scion is just as good as a Merc/BMW/Audi/Caddy/Infiniti etc. Image is everything in the world of marketing and once established it is like trying to change the path of a glacier to alter it.

A better solution would be to start building and selling cars that people that are passionate about driving and cars really want to buy. And do it at an affordable price. The FR-S is a first step but at 25K it is above the means of most young people. They need to build a fun car at the below $20K price point that the FT86 was supposed to sell at. If the exchange rate is making that difficult then build the thing in North America.

[iketiak]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

That is part of quality. Materials used, how they use them, options, features, all improve the quality of a vehicle. This is a small example, but something like the trunk liner is sad on Scion's part. Can't even be bothered with that bit of quality to make it look a little nicer and offer some sound deadening. Doesn't even weigh that much. But that is part of quality and would even fit in your build quality thought. It's really sad, the lengths Scion went to in order to reduce the quality. I also offer up as an example the Scion 10 limited edition and it's pep boys glowy shift knob. It's embarrassing, really.

I agree, why leave North America out of getting 4 trims available? The people who want a lower trim could go for the RC or G trim 86. Releasing it under Scion killed off all those options for people who actually wanted better options.

[Wolfkiller]

Originally Posted by r4m3n

this better be a April Fool's gag. After just showing off glowing emblems, Scion wants to seriously consider moving upscale?

I wouldn't diss the glowing emblems so easily if I were you. Sure they're silly looking....but they do wonders for attracting bugs away when you park your car near your campsite.

[CTB727]

Highly unnecessary and it will be a flop if they even try. Just keep it the way it is. Otherwise it will just create way too much overlap.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by iketiak

I agree, why leave North America out of getting 4 trims available? The people who want a lower trim could go for the RC or G trim 86. Releasing it under Scion killed off all those options for people who actually wanted better options.

Ummmmm... BRZ/BRZ Limited?

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

Ummmmm... BRZ/BRZ Limited?

I DONT WANT THE SUBARU BADGE!!!!!

And if Project Genesis wasn't such a flop (It consisted of the Echo, the 7th gen Celica and the MR2 Spyder (or MRS) I believe) there would be no need for the Scion brand. Scion came out after those 3 products failed to bring in the younger buyer.

HEY who's fault is that?


And hey guess what, project Scion actually worked.

[Xenocide117]

Makes sense to me. It's just a badge.