2015 Ford Mustang / Shelby GT350 Official - 5.2L FPC with 500+hp/400+ lb-ft

[boead]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3hgleEOXA"]Subaru BRZ vs Ford Mustang! - Head 2 Head Episode 7 - YouTube[/ame]

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

So I rented a Mustang convertible. 2012 is my guess, with 24k miles. Mediocre seats, middling fuel economy when babied, numb steering, numb brakes, and awful interior design. The 1992 Prelude called and wants its interior back. Just kidding. The Prelude's is better. I turned the Mustang in the next day for a Focus. Within 3 minutes I remembered why I didn't get an ST. The seats suck. The engine is also uninspired with a balky transmission at only 4k miles. The fuel economy is decent but worse than I expected. Worst of all, the Sync system is a terrible joke. It makes 2007's iDrive, probably the system's worst year, look like a 1984 Mac. I'm probably going to sell my Ford stock. Shoulda taken the Corolla.

I'm going to go ahead and call BS on your 2012 convertible experience. What were you looking for? The finest leather, stitched expensive interior and camels ass pillow soft supporting seats? For under 50k? Good luck. You won't find anyone offering the performance + that level interior quality under 50k. Period.
So how about this. Never drive a Ford or for that matter any domestic again. Obviously it's not for you. You have one of the largest most outrageous laundry list of non-existent complaints and all it says to me is "hi, I watch Top Gear and don't actually know what I'm talking about. I'm just believing and going off of everything Clarkson says." I don't understand how you can equate a standard Focus to the ST when the interiors are wildly different, INCLUDING the seats. And if you think a 92 Prelude interior compares to the Mustangs interior then you're both VERY high and exaggerating greatly.
As a matter of fact don't even look at a Ford ever again, the next time you see one just pretend it's a dense patch of invisible air. You'll be doing yourself and the people that would rather not hear your outlandish opinion a favor. I worked for Ford in 2007 and still work BMW today; Sync is still much better than iDrive at it's worst, and has improved greatly since it's initial debut.

[boead]

This is more fun to watch.
Forget about Ford or the other domestic failures.
SVTSHC guy, do you own a 86 or plan on buying one?


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDYaSwd4mmk"]2013 Scion FR-S vs 2013 Mazda MX-5 Club! - Head 2 Head Episode 27 - YouTube[/ame]

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by boead

This is more fun to watch.
Forget about Ford or the other domestic failures.
SVTSHC guy, do you own a 86 or plan on buying one?

Yeah I do, but I also don't feel like I need to put down other cars to show how much I appreciate the 86 either. The mustang was my runner up choice only because I don't feel like dropping 40k on anything at the moment. I like both cars about equally for different reasons.

Too many fanboys out there claiming to be enthusiasts; yet can't seem to see beyond the badge on a car.

I get it, some of you don't like the Mustang- it's simply not your cup of tea. But too many of you throw around this "THIS CAR SUCKS" attitude as if your subjective opinion is law. The world will never be in universal agreement with one persons tastes.

[boead]

How many mustangs have you owned?
Ive had 4.
Close friends have had more than that, spanning the entire history of Mustang.
I know mustangs well.

This is my first Toyota and/or Subaru however.

The last ford I had sucked, the one prior sucked an so on - Im not sure I ever owned a good Ford although apparently there are a few but they may just be fan bois.

[EAGLE5]

SV,

I put down the cars, not the people. You put down the people for their opinions.

When I rented a Corolla, I expected awful handling and numb steering. I got loose handling that was still lots of fun in the twisties. When I test drove the Golf R, I expected nothing and got a great car with a great interior and fun handling. Too bad the price is too high, the fuel economy is too low, and the electronics make track days unfun. The Focus ST has great suspension and a solid engine, but every criticism I had is dead on. The Mustang was just miserable. I passed on the 135i because it's too heavy with too high maintenance costs, and despite fixed fuel pumps and injectors, I don't trust the 35i engine line at all. Too many dead turbos. I would have loved to turn up that boost though. 400+hp is dead easy on those. Little more than intake, exhaust, a chip, and e85. Then there's the RX8. So much cheaper used and handles like an FRS. It even shifts better and makes getting in thbe back seat easier. However, the fuel economy when sucks and the engines have all sorts of issues, from broken apex seals to hard starting. I don't want the headaches.

So before you go insulting people, which you seem to do often, start paying attention to the facts.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

SV,

I put down the cars, not the people. You put down the people for their opinions.

When I rented a Corolla, I expected awful handling and numb steering. I got loose handling that was still lots of fun in the twisties. When I test drove the Golf R, I expected nothing and got a great car with a great interior and fun handling. Too bad the price is too high, the fuel economy is too low, and the electronics make track days unfun. The Focus ST has great suspension and a solid engine, but every criticism I had is dead on. The Mustang was just miserable. I passed on the 135i because it's too heavy with too high maintenance costs, and despite fixed fuel pumps and injectors, I don't trust the 35i engine line at all. Too many dead turbos. I would have loved to turn up that boost though. 400+hp is dead easy on those. Little more than intake, exhaust, a chip, and e85. Then there's the RX8. So much cheaper used and handles like an FRS. It even shifts better and makes getting in thbe back seat easier. However, the fuel economy when sucks and the engines have all sorts of issues, from broken apex seals to hard starting. I don't want the headaches.

So before you go insulting people, which you seem to do often, start paying attention to the facts.

Find me a direct insult. Find me one post where I called either you or the other poster any sort of insult and I'll go ahead and deactivate my account. I don't throw around personal insults and you haven't listed any facts you've stated your opinion and impression of the vehicle. All I said was that's YOUR opinion and before you go putting down a car in general you need to state that in your opinion the car isn't worthwhile, because what you find not to your liking might be perfect for someone else.

Do me a favor and don't put words in my mouth. I do my best not to insult other posters especially for their opinions. An argument is one thing, stating that fanboys need to see beyond a badge is one thing (Unless you feel like you qualify as a fanboy then it doesn't apply to you. Obviously you must if you take it as a personal affront. As far as I'm concerned you've made it obvious you don't like the mustang and the focus, which doesn't make you a fanboy it means clearly the vehicles aren't to your personal tastes.), to outright insult someone is totally different and I have yet to do that.




Boead I've owned a mustang in the past but I'm not talking about the mustangs of yesteryear the discussion is about the current and upcoming mustang. One of which is one hell of a buy according to many reviews and the other has yet to come out.
I already said it, if you don't like the car you don't like the car. Fine, that's your personal tastes/opinion and you're entitled to it. Just don't go speaking as if your word is law. What happens is people without as much automotive knowledge hear/read what people like yourself say and take it as absolute fact which helps perpetuate an old stereotype for a company that's been improving for years. In other words you're helping not give them a chance.

[DKPJester]

Originally Posted by boead

How many mustangs have you owned?
Ive had 4.

The last ford I had sucked, the one prior sucked an so on - Im not sure I ever owned a good Ford although apparently there are a few but they may just be fan bois.

Not trying to troll, but do you have some work/family association with Ford? Why would you buy 4 of a car that sucked?

[EAGLE5]

Too many fanboys out there claiming to be enthusiasts; yet can't seem to see beyond the badge on a car.

Seems like an attack on the person, not a comment on the cars. I'm pretty sure there are more examples. SV, I'm happy to hear your opinions on the cars. I'm sure you know many things I don't. However, your comments sometimes go a bit off target, which makes me and probably other people not want to continue the conversation.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Seems like an attack on the person, not a comment on the cars. I'm pretty sure there are more examples. SV, I'm happy to hear your opinions on the cars. I'm sure you know many things I don't. However, your comments sometimes go a bit off target, which makes me and probably other people not want to continue the conversation.

I had a feeling that's what you were referencing but I meant it as more of a general statement. It seems like the number of people that judge a car by what it is rather than who made it is on the decline and it's largely due to ignorance (again not saying that you fit that description). So my weakness is I can't help but jump to defend the maker that's being called out; I've done it with a bunch of manufacturers including foreign ones. I've grown accustomed to having to defend against stereotyping and my problem is I can't keep my mouth shut about it when I see it (I'm working on it).

But again, it was more a statement made out of exasperation than one targeted toward any specific individual. If you felt it was directed at you, you have my sincerest apologies. :happy0180:

[boead]

Originally Posted by DKPJester

Not trying to troll, but do you have some work/family association with Ford? Why would you buy 4 of a car that sucked?

I don't know anyone in the car industry.
Lots of fords? Well, ive had lots and lots of different cars over the years, household always had/has 3 or 4 to choose from! I didn't expect the fords to suck - LOL!! It just turned out that way unfortunately. I LIKE to support local business and American made anything BUT im also tired of being disappointed.

I had a cougar anniversary edition that just fell apart and broke down constantly!! The Mustangs were all ok the first few years then fell apart!
Had a Lincoln that was nice but again needed a lot of costly maintenance as it got older and got very soft and mush early on in its life.
Friends that bought or leased recent Fords were not particularly happy with them after some time.

Once I started driving Japanese cars I was hooked! Strong engineering, solid and durable! NEVER had any major issues with a Japanese car - hell never had many minor issues either!
I tried some quality German cars and although they are beautiful and really good they were all costly to own. The LAST LONG! The body's don't wrinkle, the paint holds up the interiors don't wear or fall apart and look newer for many more years! There have been many MB's in the family going back 30 years and ALL never got old, just aged if you know what I mean?

HAHA, got this old late 90's Camry with 265,000 miles on it sitting in my driveway (long story!) Its in better condition all around than the 20?? Chevy Cavalier "Sport" that one of my kids got not long ago with a quarter of the mileages!

[boead]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

This thread is fun. I guess I don't have much experience with real fancy cars or nothin', but my Mustang seems alright.

Mustangs have their place! They are just very different cars than what this forum is a fan of.

I remember way back... My buddy had a '83 GT 5.0. Had a carb. He worked the car up, intake, bigger Holly carb, MSD, exhaust and bigger rims/tires. The MT was ok and the car WAY TO rear happy but FUN TO DRIVE and back then nothing new was much fun to drive!
I then got a 86 GT 5.0 which had a 5-speed MT and Fuel Injection. Another friend drove an older BOSS Mustang and another had a 5.0LX MT.
At that time another bud bought an RX7 and we were all like WTF is that thing!?!? Not nearly as fast but was a completely different driving car! It outlasted our Mustangs many times over! Mine leaked, creaked and rattled itself to death! Paint failed. My buddies early 90's LX also fell apart! SO BAD that he won an argument and the dealership repainted his car because the paint failed SO badly in just a few years! He sold it, bought another GT some 8 years later that he hardly drove (garaged) and still had problems with! Sold for next to nothing because the value was nothing! He swore off Mustangs after that.

Ive rented Mustangs in recent years; always interested in another bout with a pony car. Just not happy with it but they DO get better each version!

[DKPJester]

Originally Posted by boead

Mustangs have their place! They are just very different cars than what this forum is a fan of.

I remember way back...

For the time frame you are referencing Japan was in it's heyday and America was in nearing the bottom of it's long decline in terms of car build quality. If that was when you were buying American cars I can totally understand why you would be leery of them. Speaking as someone who now lives in the Detroit metro area where EVERYONE drives something from the big three, if you haven't checked them out in recent years you owe it to yourself to try to do so with an open mind.

I haven't driven an American car personally since my first car which was a full sized pickup, but I have ridden in and driven around in some late model mustangs and focuses lately and I have to say the interior design and fit and finish is largely very impressive. A far cry from the dark ages. And to be honest, as much as I love my FR-S, the interior squeaks and rattles and after approximately 8 months the paint is in worse shape than a civic I drove for 8 years. I have to scrape some surface rust off the fender and get some touch up on it before that becomes a nightmare.

While I think the FR-S is more fun and engaging to drive, if I was looking for a relatively inexpensive track monster I'd be all over a Mustang. The $ to performance ratio on those cars is astounding if you can learn to tame them a bit. The fact that the big three, Ford in particular, have made such an impressive turnaround, the fact that the new Mustang looks to have shed some weight and gained some new styling and power plant options and the fact that Ford has had some recent killer cars like the ST has me excited to see where they are headed. Might still not be the car for me, but it should be an impressive machine. Just my 2 cents.

[EAGLE5]

Did I mention the constant internal dash squeak and the useless brights on the Focus? How about the rear hatch that takes two hands to open and close because the struts are so tight? Still can't play music from my phone nor hear the gps through the stereo. For the past 15 years, I've heard that the American car companies are ready to play with the big boys. That's just not the case. The CTS was supposed to be the best, but a gen 1 CTS v rattles like a paint can after 50k miles. I have no faith in American cars at the moment. I do own one, a 92 GMC Safari with 160k miles. Course it's on its second transmission, the interior is disgusting, and the thing sometimes doesn't start. The steering pulls to the right and it will take a grand of suspension work to fix the alignment. Still, it carries a lot.

To be fair, I'd totally buy a Tesla.