My build... well some of it

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by -max-

What size are the mids in the pillars?
Very nice by the way!

http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/Doc/H...eet_ML_700.pdf

[Alabang 86]

holy crap that's awesome.

[Liquid Thinker]

Your system from front to back is so nice and then RF subs? What gives?

[ft_sjo]

Clean install fella. Did you do any calcs for the sub port?

Any reason you decided not to go on-axis for the pillar build?

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by Liquid Thinker

Your system from front to back is so nice and then RF subs? What gives?

Not sure if you have any exp with the T1 line..... They are very nice subs. For my setup there's no other quality sub on the market that would do what I need. Originally I had tried it with both milles and high energies to keep it all one brand.

What would you have chosen in place if the RF?

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Clean install fella. Did you do any calcs for the sub port?

Any reason you decided not to go on-axis for the pillar build?

Yes a lot if time was spent designing the port sizing. I chose off axis because personally on axis doesn't look as nice, plus I would lose a ton of driver side visibility by swinging them out to be on axis.

[Skippman]

Originally Posted by cruzinbill

Not sure if you have any exp with the T1 line..... They are very nice subs. For my setup there's no other quality sub on the market that would do what I need. Originally I had tried it with both milles and high energies to keep it all one brand.

What would you have chosen in place if the RF?



Yes a lot if time was spent designing the port sizing. I chose off axis because personally on axis doesn't look as nice, plus I would lose a ton of driver side visibility by swinging them out to be on axis.

I was wondering about that myself. I'm planning to use the stock locations but am worried about the beaming off the windshield. I'm hoping putting the transducers on the A-Pillars on axis will help with that a bit.

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by Skippman

I was wondering about that myself. I'm planning to use the stock locations but am worried about the beaming off the windshield. I'm hoping putting the transducers on the A-Pillars on axis will help with that a bit.

If you are still planning on using the Bit10 you will be fine since it allows tons of adjustments to make really anything sound good I have found.

[Liquid Thinker]

Originally Posted by cruzinbill

Not sure if you have any exp with the T1 line..... They are very nice subs. For my setup there's no other quality sub on the market that would do what I need. Originally I had tried it with both milles and high energies to keep it all one brand.

What would you have chosen in place if the RF?

You are right I don't have any experience with the T1s because I wrote RF off a long time ago. Their quality never bounced back after their growing pains of the 90s.

Given the cost and quality of your system I would have gone with JL W7s or even Image Dynamics IDMAXs. I am not sure how they would perform with the weird ported IB setup but I know both perform quite well in regular IB setups.

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by Liquid Thinker

You are right I don't have any experience with the T1s because I wrote RF off a long time ago. Their quality never bounced back after their growing pains of the 90s.

Given the cost and quality of your system I would have gone with JL W7s or even Image Dynamics.

I had quit using RF until their latest line, they have improved their qualtiy significantly. ID wouldn't work for the design I have, I wouldnt call it a better built sub than the T1 anyway. Its on par with a P3 for sound and quality. Either way it didn't model as to what I wanted.

The W7 from a technical standpoint would not work due to being a 3ohm sub and once modeled in my enclosure becomes this silly SPL one note wonder.

Personally tho JL has gone down hill I think, the W7, seems to becoming more and more a big spl sub. While I still recommend their amps to people... their speakers and subs.... not a chance.

I don't really do the whole brand loyalty thing, aside from one brand that I will never suggest to anyone because they are complete shitbags as humans. I wont throw names out on it tho. Anyway, I spent a lot of time modeling top end subs and at the end of the day the T1 is what was the best choice. Anyone who has heard it can agree if there was a weak link the RF subs would not be it.

[koteman]

awesome so how much air space is the trunk acting as for the tuning and port area.

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by koteman

awesome so how much air space is the trunk acting as for the tuning and port area.

~5.75cf as for the tuning, I'll prolly not be discussing how and why I ended with what I have.

[Liquid Thinker]

Originally Posted by cruzinbill

The W7 from a technical standpoint would not work due to being a 3ohm sub and once modeled in my enclosure becomes this silly SPL one note wonder.

I didn't realize your amp wasn't 1 ohm stable, you should still have the power to push W7s at 3ohms in an IB setup though. I disagree with you on the rest of the statement. While IB setups are notoriously inconsistent from vehicle to vehicle, I know they can sound great. I know someone with a setup very similar to yours, minus the port, running W7s and they sound great.

Originally Posted by cruzinbill

Personally tho JL has gone down hill I think, the W7, seems to becoming more and more a big spl sub. While I still recommend their amps to people... their speakers and subs.... not a chance.

I would love to hear your reasoning behind this. I agree their speakers have always been crap. However, their subs have always been top notch. I have a pair of the newest series of W3s that are quite good and on par with the JLs I have had over the past 15 years or so. The W7 has always walked a line between SPL and SQ. Its so popular because it does both quite well.

Originally Posted by cruzinbill

I don't really do the whole brand loyalty thing, aside from one brand that I will never suggest to anyone because they are complete shitbags as humans. I wont throw names out on it tho. Anyway, I spent a lot of time modeling top end subs and at the end of the day the T1 is what was the best choice. Anyone who has heard it can agree if there was a weak link the RF subs would not be it.

I am not sure where you get that am making recommendations based on brand loyalty. RF has an atrocious reputation and while they may have improved all of a sudden I am inclined to believe the last 2 decades are a pretty good representation on their quality. There are a ton of great subs out there but the two I listed were two off the top of my head that I have heard in IB systems that sounded quite good.

I think relying heavily on models in a system like yours is a mistake. If you have been doing this for any period of time (which I assume you have based on your system) you know that modeling IB systems is never accurate or consistent. When you throw in the port it becomes even more convoluted.

Either way if you are happy with it that's all that matters. My original statement about why RF was worded poorly but I was just wondering if you knew something I didn't. You mixed high-end components and amps with a sub brand I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. The system is very nice just didn't get the RF choice, thanks for your input.

[cruzinbill]

@Liquid Thinker

If I were running a true IB, then it may have been enough. It would just been a waste IMO to run the amp at 6ohm. The reason I didn't go with a true IB is the fact that I have yet to see any perform well from 20-30hz with 10s. They always seem to turnout like a large sealed box with better response. Its taken months to find a way to accurately model subs for real worlds results in this car. Whether or not my method works on every car and a 100% of the time.... idk. What I will say is everything I have tested for this has been almost spot on from modeling to real world rta results.

My reasoning for the JL sub statement is this. While the W3 is still arguably a great sub at a great price. The W1, and W0 have went down in quality while appearing to look nicer. For example, the P1 and P2 of RF perform better than the W0 and W1 at the same price point in real world setups, where as the W3 is on par if not a bit better than the P3. The W7 as I've said is starting to feel like an expensive SPL sub. There are just better subs out there for the price. My buddy ended up changing back to his older W7 because it just performed better without getting out of hand at higher volumes.

As for the brand loyalty, your statement of not touching RF with a ten foot pole is what I was talking about. I don't base things off whats popular or what people like. I base them off that facts of what equipment can and cant do. RF may not be a "highend" brand in your eyes, but they do exactly what they say they can do and warranty their stuff to back it up.
If you havent used their equipment its hard to make assumptions on a business after 20 years... even then I would say you are off on some things since their late 90s stuff was pretty good. I had used their HE2s back then. Now 02ish about 09 or so.... ya the quality had dropped.

[Liquid Thinker]

Originally Posted by cruzinbill

@Liquid Thinker
As for the brand loyalty, your statement of not touching RF with a ten foot pole is what I was talking about. I don't base things off whats popular or what people like. I base them off that facts of what equipment can and cant do. RF may not be a "highend" brand in your eyes, but they do exactly what they say they can do and warranty their stuff to back it up.
If you havent used their equipment its hard to make assumptions on a business after 20 years... even then I would say you are off on some things since their late 90s stuff was pretty good. I had used their HE2s back then. Now 02ish about 09 or so.... ya the quality had dropped.

I am not basing my opinion of RF only on popular opinion. I went through several of their subs in the late 90s and early 00s. I was not impressed with the performance for the price. Kicker was making some damn good subs for cheap back then making it worse for RF. I was also not impressed with their customer service. When I had issues (DOA subs, failure in first month, etc) it was like pulling teeth dealing with them. I admit they have had plenty of time to clean up their act but I am the type of consumer that will not continue to patronize a business that has treated me poorly or delivered an inferior product on multiple occasions.

I appreciate your input though. I will give their newer line a listen and consider them when I do my next build.