Trolling

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Precisely the negativity I am referring to. I understand your points but there are more tasteful ways of getting them across. Words of insult add nothing to constuctive, meaningful disucssion.

fatoni doesn't own the car nor have I ever seen him state having driven one yet he seems to be more expert on it than us owners. He and I have had our number of logical arguments filled with objectivity and even friendly elbow rubbing in the vs. section. But we did it enough to a point where I started noticing a trend in his posts. And it surprised me when other people (whom I've never interacted with on this forum) PM'd me out of the blue stating the same observations I had about him. I am not posting here to talk about him specifically, though. So please, stop provoking me to turn this into a discussion about him (it shouldn't be). I just brought him up as an example and, in his defense, I said he *isn't* an all-out troll.

And the kill list is not meant to impress. It's meant to spread awareness of something that is real and apparent on this forum. With that, I notice people have been making claims using very carefully chosen words in recent discussions in which I'm involved. I feel it's very much working. You've expressed your obvious dislike towards it so put me on your ignore list, please.

You specifically named him in the post and drew attention to your goofy kill count, which has a few of his. This is the second time you are trying to bring up the 'forum problem' of him not sharing your viewpoint in this section. You're bring awareness to conflicting opinions? Revolutionary...

Not everyone will share your rose-coloured view of the car. Get over it and use your ignore button if you lack the self-discipline to do it on your own.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by Dimman

You specifically named him in the post and drew attention to your goofy kill count, which has a few of his. This is the second time you are trying to bring up the 'forum problem' of him not sharing your viewpoint in this section. You're bring awareness to conflicting opinions? Revolutionary...

All kills consist of facts I used to disprove false facts or opinions. Any part showing an opinion conflicting with another opinion does not qualify as a kill and can be ignored. I just noticed my kill #5 (which pointed out the worst and hardest troll of all kills) worked because his discussion got deleted.

I've still participated in discussions with fatoni even after those kills. I don't understand why you're so concerned about us/trying to get so involved in our relations. But I think we can do fine on our own. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Dimman

Not everyone will share your rose-coloured view of the car. Get over it and use your ignore button if you lack the self-discipline to do it on your own.

I'm sorry, and this is relevant to this discussion ...how?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Your 'kill list' impresses no-one, nor your crying about it here.

this.. the "kill list" aren't "kills" of any sort. They are opinions for the most part.

For everyone else, someone having a different opinion, viewpoint, etc than you IS NOT TROLLING.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

this.. the "kill list" aren't "kills" of any sort. They are opinions for the most part.

For everyone else, someone having a different opinion, viewpoint, etc than you IS NOT TROLLING.

You know, I think my future outlook is going to be to temp ban anyone who reports trolling incorrectly. If you complain about a civilized conversation because someone disagrees with you (and plenty of members here do just that), you can enjoy a week's vacation from the site. You're welcome.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

this.. the "kill list" aren't "kills" of any sort. They are opinions for the most part.

Each and every kill has at least one fact for its basis. Sometimes verbose opinions (which carry no qualification for the kill) just happen to bury the key fact that is sitting there. Sometimes the small fact references/alludes to other posts in the thread that need to be read to get the full context.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

If you complain about a civilized conversation because someone disagrees with you (and plenty of members here do just that), you can enjoy a week's vacation from the site. You're welcome.

Highlighted a key word there. It's the crux of this discussion because different mods can interpret it differently.

So @Dimman came into this thread and, in his first post, resorted straight to using words such as whining, butt-hurt, impresses no-one, and crying. Granted, those are words of opinion. But opinions not directed at a car nor this thread's topic. They were directed to a person (me). Fine. Just one guy typing a lot of words with no real substance comfortably behind his keyboard from afar. Doesn't bother me.

What does bother me is the crowd this sort of rhetoric cultivates and my overall perception of this forum. I've made friends who were active on this forum years before the car came out. But ever since it got "invaded" by an influx of inconsiderate new members (at least in the main forums), they hardly post anymore. Breaks my heart. It's become a battleground in the sense that, though valid arguments do transpire, fecal matter must also be slung to get the point across. Only the OT section remains as the old members' feces-free haven. So please, help cut the crap. I'm more for civilized discussions like the old ft86club days!

This becomes an internet rhetoric/online forum culture problem. Mods can't enforce members to argue a certain "way." But the way ft86club main forum discussions go many times is down the crapper and it's absolutely turning enthusiastic people away. I tried to ignore it many times thinking the behavior would go away. But passivity is not the best policy because the BS keeps on a comin'! Last month, the force of unchecked BS was strong. So I sunk down to their level. "TROLL ON TROLLS." Something's gotta work, right? A handful of mods can only do so much on a forum of thousands to enforce civility. Civility is dicated more by this forum's culture. Culture manifests from its members.

To put context to "forum culture," there is a certain culture on club4ag and mr2oc. Many immature but enthusiastic kids and many experienced, patient veteran enthusiasts. They get along mainly because of the strong cult interest - restoration/upkeep. Spyderchat was run by an older crowd (forum nazis) and cultivated that into its members but is recently becoming more like mr2oc. G35driver was a yuppy/semi-snob crowd last I checked, reminiscent of how some might perceive Porsche owners. Newcelica.org was ok when it was new then went horribly down the shitter (the OT section is a troll breeding ground which actually makes better sense than here where it's the inverse). FT86club is on track to being the next newcelica.org. Maybe because the target demographics are similar. I am disappoint.

[2forme]

@Dave-ROR, I have another idea. Ban them from modifying their signature, and change their sig to something like this.... for a week.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Highlighted a key word there. It's the crux of this discussion because different mods can interpret it differently.

Let's take a quick trip down your kill list:

#1. The person you replied to was in a civilized conversation and postulated other ways to refer to products originating in a country and destined for that country or others. A way to get around the common Domestic Market names. You reply with the definition of what a domestic market is and make a picture. You did not kill a troll, nor was the OP or the guy you replied to trolling. They weren't being offensive either.

#2. You post a quote in reply to a rumor. No trolling, no offensive content, etc. Just another rumor we've all heard before. Quotes are great, but businesses change direction all the time so who knows if Subaru will ever put a turbocharged engine in at the factory. They might, it wouldn't be the first time a product team changed it's direction. Again, no trolling here either.

#3. Here you suggest any common man can *DEVELOP* (this is key) dry carbon bits that function aerodynamically. Sure, a common man might be able to INSTALL them, but the development of that car was led with a reportedly open budget. Assuming they used a wind tunnel to verify everything that was far from the inexpensive project you claimed it to be (by the standard of a common man). And once again, there was absolutely no trolling on the part of fatoni.

#4. Here I enjoyed that you didn't quote the first time it was posted, you know the one were he pointed out the fallacy of your argument. To get to the context you posted as proof that the 86 is better than the 458 Italia that it was ~.3 seconds faster around a single track. He replied stating a list of cars which are faster and similar in price to the 86, which you then added a higher burden of proof as a requirement (compared to what you did) to accept the same exact argument you wanted him and others to accept. While the part you quoted separately seems like a dumb comment, in context it was meant to say simply that price does not determine the worthiness of a sports car. The point he was making was obvious, you just decided to not quote the part that made it obvious. Once again though, no insults, no attacks, just reasonable and open conversation on an opinion. Once again, he wasn't trolling by any definition of the word.

#5. This wasn't trolling, but was inflammatory. That's why it was deleted by Hachi. He happened to have a very strong opinion about manuals. Based on sales, most 86 owners agree with him at this time at least. The auto vs manual conversations here get heated because of passion. I think passionate conversation is good. He wasn't trolling, even if he was being rude and abrasive.

#6. Once again, not trolling. I try to use the normal business "Reasonable Person Standard" to determine if someone is out of line. IMO I don't know many that would consider his post to be an attack or insult. He just took the short way of pointing out what I did in the long way above, which is that your kills list is laughable because none of them are "kills" and none of the people you are replying to are "trolls".

All forums shift around as membership changes. This will be no different. Since you've been on forums for a long time you should realize by now that there's no way to prevent it. Instead you should just keep trying to make the forum what you want it to be by contributing good information, DIYs, technical conversations, etc. Instead you add a "kills list" of non-kills to your sig which could be considered an immature step in the wrong direction itself.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

You know, I think my future outlook is going to be to temp ban anyone who reports trolling incorrectly. If you complain about a civilized conversation because someone disagrees with you (and plenty of members here do just that), you can enjoy a week's vacation from the site. You're welcome.

AMEN






ladies, please.....

[B L U E S L A T E]

This most definitely made my day. Some of you are way too serious in life and seriously in need of huge dose of chill pills. Anyways, I've had a great laugh reading some of the comments here. lol

FYI, if you want to experience what real trolling feels like, go visit my350z.com. Those guys are trolling level 9999 and not a single fvck will be given to any Internet newbs. No mercy.

[OrbitalEllipses]

All bow to the wisdom of the Dave. This thread has gone on long enough; just a bunch of people circle-jerking about trolls now. Can we get a lock, @Dave-ROR?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Can we get a lock, @Dave-ROR?

Not until I get on his kills list!

[2forme]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Not until I get on his kills list!

You're due to be lucky #7!

[White64Goat]

Dude..........you should have not put your yearbook picture in here!